Confidentiality of Private messages

Status
Not open for further replies.

Gregadd

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
10,517
1,774
1,850
Metro DC
I'll try to avoid any overt references to the U.S. Constitutioin.

I do think we n o the "management team" needs to make an official policy regarding private messages. In my book private means private. If it does not a disclaimer should be issued each time a memebr attempts to use that feature. if our messages can be accessed by the management team" then we might choose to utilize other options and avoid the feature all together. This is not NSA or Homeland Security.
Keep in mind that when you send domeone a message they can do pretty much whaever they want to including making it public.

Right now there seems to be no clear consensus in the MT(Management Team).
 

DonH50

Member Sponsor & WBF Technical Expert
Jun 22, 2010
3,947
306
1,670
Monument, CO
Unless it is encrypted nothing on the 'net is private. That said, I'll offer that on the trumpet forum I help moderate, forum moderators do not have access to PMs and pay no attention to them (only the sysadmin has full access). If members have a problem with a PM, they let us know, and we'll decide what course of action to take. Making PM's public without permission from both (or all) parties is grounds for a time-out and banning if repeated, and we'll delete any public exposure as soon as we know about it. The "P" in PM means something...

FWIWFM - Don
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,438
13,468
2,710
London
Can't emails be forwarded? Why not PMs? Both with emails and PMs, we trust that the receiver will not forward to everyone, and the sender too assumes some responsibility for what he sends.
 

Gregadd

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
10,517
1,774
1,850
Metro DC
So you are saying AoL can look at your emails with impunity?
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,438
13,468
2,710
London
So you are saying AoL can look at your emails with impunity?

No, not the mods. I thought you were referring to incidents where if I PM you, you can post it on the forum or forward it to someone else.
 

Gregadd

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
10,517
1,774
1,850
Metro DC
Both.
 
Last edited:

BlueFox

Member Sponsor
Nov 8, 2013
1,709
406
405
I would guess it depends on the integrity of the forum owners. On another forum I have read accounts where the posters were talking about having been banned from a previous forum because of their PMs. The czar does not tolerate criticism and demands pure adulation from his members.
 

Rodney Gold

Member
Jan 29, 2014
983
11
18
Cape Town South Africa
I have no access to pm's in forums I moderate on or had moderated.
They were considered sancrosact by the mod team and founder..obviously they are stored in the forums database ...so someone can access them..

It is generally considered a major breach of trust and ethics if PMs are revealed by users..like the biggest crime on forums after trolling..

My 0.02c worth after decades on the internet and seeing countless forums

In this world, either you choose to act like a mensch or not..
 

DonH50

Member Sponsor & WBF Technical Expert
Jun 22, 2010
3,947
306
1,670
Monument, CO
Emails are not secure and can be read at any point along the chain from sender to ISP to email server and back to receiver. If I have something private to send, I use an encrypted zip file and communicate the password some other way, from a different email (at least they have to track both down) to a phone call to a registered letter (for financial stuff). That said, I would not expect emails or PMs to be pasted in an open forum without my permission and that of the recipient. That is ethics and morals, not law, however.
 

edorr

WBF Founding Member
May 10, 2010
3,139
14
36
Smyrna, GA
I once had a massive clash on AVS forum with someone using the public forum to falsely accuse me of having told him something compromising my integrity in a PM to him. The moderator got involved and I invited him to check all my PM's for the alleged comment, and suspent from the forum indefinitely whoever turned out to be lying. The moderator declined the offer. God, how I miss hanging around AVS forum, the nastiest of them all.
 
Last edited:

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,438
13,468
2,710
London
Emails are not secure and can be read at any point along the chain from sender to ISP to email server and back to receiver. If I have something private to send, I use an encrypted zip file and communicate the password some other way, from a different email (at least they have to track both down) to a phone call to a registered letter (for financial stuff). That said, I would not expect emails or PMs to be pasted in an open forum without my permission and that of the recipient. That is ethics and morals, not law, however.

Agreed
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,438
13,468
2,710
London
I once had a massive clash on AVS forum with someone using the public from to falsely accuse me of having told him something compromising my integrity in a PM to him. The moderator got involved and I invited him to check all my PM's for the alleged comment, and suspent from the forum indefinitely whoever turned out to be lying. The moderator declined the offer. God, how I miss hanging around AVS forum, the nastiest of them all.

I think we should all agree that we use the mods to referee us, so mods should be allowed to check during dispute
 

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 16, 2010
8,570
51
38
Calgary, AB
I once had a massive clash on AVS forum with someone using the public from to falsely accuse me of having told him something compromising my integrity in a PM to him. The moderator got involved and I invited him to check all my PM's for the alleged comment, and suspent from the forum indefinitely whoever turned out to be lying. The moderator declined the offer. God, how I miss hanging around AVS forum, the nastiest of them all.
Are you saying that Mods over at AVS have access to member PM's? I seriously doubt that, but if so, that's just wrong. The only one(s) that should have access are the system admins....no one else.
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
37
0
Seattle, WA
1. Currently no one in the admin/mod team has any idea or motivation to go and read anyone's PMs not addressed to us. They are stored in the database as mentioned just like posts. So as a practical matter, they are private to you guys.

2. As I have also explained, anyone can report your PMs to us. This is a standard feature of our software and exists in every implementation of it in thousands of forums. I have utilized that feature elsewhere to report threatening PMs for example. And I was encouraged to do so by said management.

3. While I have not checked, my assumption is that all of your PMs are unencrypted. That means that it is possible for the people who manage/run our software to read what is there as can of course law enforcement under any formal request to us to hand over our forum content.

4. Anyone can cut and paste your PM into another forum or email. Or even take a snapshot of the screen while viewing the PM. This means that even if we provided some kind of security, it will be an empty promise as the message can easily be captured.

5. We do not allow abusive posts whether in public or private. Same sanctions apply equally to both. We did not create this forum for people to go and hurt each other whether that communication is in private or public. So if your PM is reported, do not expect lenient treatment because you sent it in PM.

6. Many PMs have been reported in the past with or without the knowledge of the sender. In some cases we have taken action, in others not. But in every case we have seen them.

7. I have also seen PMs shared without the sender's permission in the context of backchanneling to members of the admin. Don't assume that the people you send PMs think they are bound by any sense of honor to not do so. Other motivations take precedent.

These are the facts as I can think of them this morning. Base your assumption of privacy of PMs on these. While I have not checked with my peers, I am confident they will attest to all of this so there is no division in the management team on these as far as I know.
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
37
0
Seattle, WA
I would guess it depends on the integrity of the forum owners.
Not at all with respect to all the points I just mentioned. We are governed by certain principals. We can't give you what is not technically possible. Nor are we here to protect hateful speech using the tools we provide for free to the membership. There are plenty of communication channels to abuse each other elsewhere. Don't use ours.

On another forum I have read accounts where the posters were talking about having been banned from a previous forum because of their PMs. The czar does not tolerate criticism and demands pure adulation from his members.
You can indeed get banned on countless forums for your PMs that are reported to management. As I said, it is a standard feature.

If those people are saying they got banned because of PMs that were not reported, I love to read their account as I doubt hardly any admins out there has the technical ability to go and find the private PMs and read them (even though it is possible).

If you want to increase your odds of privacy of your PMs, make them polite, cordial, informative, etc. Then even if they are exposed, they are no big deal. If you are doing the opposite, being nasty, bullying members, etc. and are seeking for us to give you some kind of protection, you are asking the wrong forum admins.
 

edorr

WBF Founding Member
May 10, 2010
3,139
14
36
Smyrna, GA
Are you saying that Mods over at AVS have access to member PM's? I seriously doubt that, but if so, that's just wrong. The only one(s) that should have access are the system admins....no one else.

I'm not sure. This particular moderator did not go through my PMs (despite the offer), but he never mentioned whether or not he could in principle. In this specific instance (i.e. with member permission), I guess he could have asked the admin.

I'm a moderator on PS audio forum, and not a chance in hell I can see PMs.
 

Kingsrule

VIP/Donor
Feb 3, 2011
1,432
681
1,430
Amir

If you want to be really cool, install a feature on WBF that deletes PMs from your server/s data base after a certain period of time, like 7 days.
Issue solved.....
 

spazmatron

Banned
Dec 4, 2015
190
0
0
Somerset, uk
I really don't see any problem with the system as it is. More of a concern would be members posting each other's pm messages on the forum but as most probably already forward some pm message between thier friends group, the likelihood of any person feeling the need to share pm messages on the forum is remote. It should not be possible as grievance between members is a management matter if indeed anyone feels so wounded.

i really hate to break it to everyone but your really not so interesting, so as long as we are not being nasty and cruel to each other then nothing to worry about.
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
6,129
181
458
La Jolla, Calif USA
I have no access to pm's in forums I moderate on or had moderated.
They were considered sancrosact by the mod team and founder..obviously they are stored in the forums database ...so someone can access them..

It is generally considered a major breach of trust and ethics if PMs are revealed by users..like the biggest crime on forums after trolling..

My 0.02c worth after decades on the internet and seeing countless forums

In this world, either you choose to act like a mensch or not..

+1000
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing