The Direct to Disc thread

ddk · Aug 11, 2018

DaveyF said:
If we are talking just about SQ, then IMO the Sheffield Lab is in a totally different league to the other titles. I own all of these LP's and IMO Mountain Dance isn't even close to the SQ of Discovered Again--nor is Harlequin. As to music quality, they are all Dave Grusin, I don't hear much difference between any of them in that regard. I guess YMMV.

@DDK, what are you talking about...a real tt?? Do tell

It's something beyond your budget and from the PMs you've been sending people we know it's way beyond your comprehension too but in this case I was clearly talking about his EMT 927.

david

DaveyF · Aug 11, 2018

ddk said:
It's something beyond your budget and from the PMs you've been sending people we know it's way beyond your comprehension too but in this case I was clearly talking about his EMT 927.

david

Just such an outrageous response, too bad I cannot reply to you the way I want to...but do keep it up, shows everyone who you are.

ddk · Aug 11, 2018

DaveyF said:
Just such an outrageous response, too bad I cannot reply to you the way I want to...but do keep it up, shows everyone who you are.

Unlike the PMs you’ve been circulating behind my back what I said is the truth!

david

DaveyF · Aug 11, 2018

ddk said:
Unlike the PMs you’ve been circulating behind my back what I said is the truth!

david

PM's are supposed to be private...and IF you would like to hear what other members are saying about you...in their PM's to me, I will get their permission and send them to you...I wouldn't IF i were you!!
BTW, NOBODY has EVER got my permission to circulate ANY of my PM's...which tells you something about ANYBODY who has shared any of my PM's --without my permission!

ddk · Aug 12, 2018

DaveyF said:
PM's are supposed to be private...and IF you would like to hear what other members are saying about you...in their PM's to me, I will get their permission and send them to you...I wouldn't IF i were you!!
BTW, NOBODY has EVER got my permission to circulate ANY of my PM's...which tells you something about ANYBODY who has shared any of my PM's --without my permission!

I don’t care LITTLE Kitty, it’s your litter box.

david

DaveyF · Aug 12, 2018

ddk said:
I don’t care LITTLE Kitty, it’s your litter box.

david

You are on my permanent ignore list now...Please make sure to do the same thing for me.
I know many others will be doing exactly the same thing with you.

I am having such a hard time believing you are a dealer....with that attitude!! WOW!!!!!!!!

NorthStar · Aug 12, 2018

PeterA said:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/M-K-REALTI...SC-1978-NO-CAT-/292621461559?oid=272230270259

One of the problems with the resurgence of vinyl. I know a guy who searched for years for a sealed copy of this title. He bought five or six NM copies instead because he never found a sealed copy. Then one day his new bride gave him a sealed copy as a gift. She had known he was looking and had stumbled upon a copy somewhere. One never knows how that can happen, but it does. He knows he married the right woman.

I'm reading peacefully this thread, I got time, and this is where I am @ now.
I like that post from Peter above.

NorthStar · Aug 12, 2018

Manos_Bits said:
so, lets put some personal favorites Direct to Disc Jazz vinyls.. in the manner that they have excellent recording quality and great music worth..
sorry for not putting some Sheffield albums here, my opinion about Sheffield D2D recordings is held some posts before..

10 of the best sounding and musically worthy Direct To Disc Vinyl Albums
---------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Jun Fukamachi ?– Jun Fukamachi At Steinway (Toshiba Records ?– LF-95001) .. this is the best ever solo piano recording, in B2 'Ran-Man' Jun plays both in clavier and also harpisms inside the piano.. fantastic, amazing, unsurpassed
2. Fred Hunt Trio ?– Yesterdays (Erus ?– 2610 331) .. the absolute Jazz trio sound, excellent rhythm and dynamics, every sound and instrument in it's place and in it's tone
3. Bobby Durham Trio ?– Bobby Durham Trio (Black And Blue ?– 33.800) .. hard to find lp, sound and atmosphere like to be there, no reverb, no effects, great vocals, great drums and bass performance
4. 'Hannibal' Marvin Peterson* ?– Naima (Eastworld ?– EWLF-98004) .. Coltrane composition in an inspired and absolute sounding jazz recording.. must have, must audition..
5. The Bassface Swing Trio ?– Tribute To Cole Porter (Stockfisch Records ?– SFR 357.8056.1) .. this is a D2D and DMM recording.. the sound as all Stockfisch recordings is unmistakable, the music is a bit 'cold' due to stress IMO
6. Lew Tabackin With Toshiyuki Miyama And His New Herd ?– Vintage Tenor (RCA ?– RDCE-11) .. RCA-RDCE series, crispy, transparent, well balanced sound and good music
7. Freddie Hubbard ?– Ride Like The Wind (Elektra Musician ?– E1-60029) .. Recorded live to two tracks on June 13, 14, 1981.. mainstream jazz from the trumpet master, fantastic sounding, pure pleasure listening to
8. Mel Tormé & Buddy Rich ?– Together Again-For The First Time (Gryphon ?– G-784) .. Torme sensual voice, Buddy Rich in dums, a full brass section, big band orchestration, excellent lp
9. Merl Saunders ?– Do I Move You (Crystal Clear Records ?– CCS-5006) .. Funky-Soul and Jazz performance, bass slaps and synth riffs, a tribute to good electric & vocal music
10.Tom Waits ?– Small Change (Asylum Records ?– 7E-1078) - Tom performs live and been drunk, one of the best live jazz-blues solo performances, maybe the sound is not 10/10 but the music in in heaven

Thank you for taking the time to post this, it makes me want to explore...what music is all about.

NorthStar · Aug 12, 2018

I've read this entire thread now; sometimes taste in music differs, which is 100% normal.

As for the audiophile quality sound recording of some of the selections mentioned in this thread, the owners know best. I cannot offer anything because even if own quite a few music audiophile recording labels this is an all analog thread; top analog gurus know best.

It's been a fun and fruity read.

BruceD · Aug 12, 2018

Well said Bob-- you missed ya calling!----The Pacifier

Grateful for you correcting the rudder and steering the ship back on course

Ahem if I may--- Interesting comments on the Sheffields--yep guilty as charged I forked out $$$$'s for 99% of them--any survived? --

Nope! and frankly that Thelma Houston was so bright and

edgy I don't miss any of em--well maybe the Peace Train cut!

BruceD

Manos_Bits · Aug 12, 2018

Manos_Bits said:
so, lets put some personal favorites Direct to Disc Jazz vinyls.. in the manner that they have excellent recording quality and great music worth..
sorry for not putting some Sheffield albums here, my opinion about Sheffield D2D recordings is held some posts before..

10 of the best sounding and musically worthy Direct To Disc Vinyl Albums
---------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Jun Fukamachi ?– Jun Fukamachi At Steinway (Toshiba Records ?– LF-95001) .. this is the best ever solo piano recording, in B2 'Ran-Man' Jun plays both in clavier and also harpisms inside the piano.. fantastic, amazing, unsurpassed
2. Fred Hunt Trio ?– Yesterdays (Erus ?– 2610 331) .. the absolute Jazz trio sound, excellent rhythm and dynamics, every sound and instrument in it's place and in it's tone
3. Bobby Durham Trio ?– Bobby Durham Trio (Black And Blue ?– 33.800) .. hard to find lp, sound and atmosphere like to be there, no reverb, no effects, great vocals, great drums and bass performance
4. 'Hannibal' Marvin Peterson* ?– Naima (Eastworld ?– EWLF-98004) .. Coltrane composition in an inspired and absolute sounding jazz recording.. must have, must audition..
5. The Bassface Swing Trio ?– Tribute To Cole Porter (Stockfisch Records ?– SFR 357.8056.1) .. this is a D2D and DMM recording.. the sound as all Stockfisch recordings is unmistakable, the music is a bit 'cold' due to stress IMO
6. Lew Tabackin With Toshiyuki Miyama And His New Herd ?– Vintage Tenor (RCA ?– RDCE-11) .. RCA-RDCE series, crispy, transparent, well balanced sound and good music
7. Freddie Hubbard ?– Ride Like The Wind (Elektra Musician ?– E1-60029) .. Recorded live to two tracks on June 13, 14, 1981.. mainstream jazz from the trumpet master, fantastic sounding, pure pleasure listening to
8. Mel Tormé & Buddy Rich ?– Together Again-For The First Time (Gryphon ?– G-784) .. Torme sensual voice, Buddy Rich in dums, a full brass section, big band orchestration, excellent lp
9. Merl Saunders ?– Do I Move You (Crystal Clear Records ?– CCS-5006) .. Funky-Soul and Jazz performance, bass slaps and synth riffs, a tribute to good electric & vocal music
10.Tom Waits ?– Small Change (Asylum Records ?– 7E-1078) - Tom performs live and been drunk, one of the best live jazz-blues solo performances, maybe the sound is not 10/10 but the music in in heaven

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Direct To Disc procedure is a stressy and costly method.. It has the advantages of overtaking many recording stages resulting to clearer production, but it has major problems too.. First of all is the 'one pass per side'.. for example, in a 5 track record side if a musician makes an error in the end of the last track all of the previous tracks gone lost and the lacquer is destroyed.. the procedure starts again from the beginning!! That fact brinks lots of stress to the musicians and that is reflected to the music feeling of the production.. For that reason many times the director called the musicians to invite friends in studio to feel more comfortable!!

Another major problem is the lack of backup!! there only one lacquer that gives a few 'mother' matrices that give in consequence few hundreds of records.. this is all, there is no matrix or master tape to reprint other vinyls!!

Due to that problems another method was developed, the 'Direct To Two Tracks'.. this is a true audiophile method that in most times eliminates the stressy 'one session per side' process and also has the advantage to create a master tape for backup!! This method is quite similar with Direct To Disc, no multi-track recorder is involved, no overdubs, musicians perform live and the 2 channel sound from the output of multi-track mixing console instead of going to cutting lathe, goes directly to 2 track master tape recorder.. so we have a master tape to print and re-print many records..

from the above list nr 7. Freddie Hubbard ?– Ride Like The Wind and nr 10.Tom Waits ?– Small Change are 'live direct to two tracks' recordings..

microstrip · Aug 12, 2018

NorthStar said:
I've read this entire thread now; sometimes taste in music differs, which is 100% normal.

As for the audiophile quality sound recording of some of the selections mentioned in this thread, the owners know best. I cannot offer anything because even if own quite a few music audiophile recording labels this is an all analog thread; top analog gurus know best.

It's been a fun and fruity read.

Yes Bob, the message is what recordings people like and why. I do not care about what they do not like, unless it explains about their audio preferences.

jadis · Aug 12, 2018

Manos_Bits said:
Another major problem is the lack of backup!! there only one lacquer that gives a few 'mother' matrices that give in consequence few hundreds of records.. this is all, there is no matrix or master tape to reprint other vinyls!!

Due to that problems another method was developed, the 'Direct To Two Tracks'.. this is a true audiophile method that in most times eliminates the stressy 'one session per side' process and also has the advantage to create a master tape for backup!! This method is quite similar with Direct To Disc, no multi-track recorder is involved, no overdubs, musicians perform live and the 2 channel sound from the output of multi-track mixing console instead of going to cutting lathe, goes directly to 2 track master tape recorder.. so we have a master tape to print and re-print many records..

The notes on the cover says this LP was 'produced from the live stereo tape recorded during the original direct disc session'. So I would think it fills the definition of a direct to 2 tracks LP. I bought this initially, not knowing much about the differences between the 2 in my early days of the hobby, and when I got a direct to disc copy, the difference was night and day, and I immediately sold the direct to 2 track copy. Blurred, veiled, sterile, and lifeless. Those would be the words I would describe the 2 track compared to the D2D, for this specific record. As far as I know, only 2 titles were produced by Sheffield on both D2D and 2 track tape, the other being Thelma Houston.

jadis · Aug 12, 2018

The Thelma Houston D2D piqued my curiosity. I haven't played it for quite some time now and I would like to find out if it is dull, tiny, or bright, as I read in this thread. My favorite track was Don't Misunderstand, and tonight, after playing it, I do not understand (no pun intended), how this can sound dull, tiny, or bright in other systems. It sounds fantastic, and like Ron, I love it. The bass, piano, horns, and vocals sounded really good, and in fact, I have nothing to complain about in this recording, or its musical content. The next 2 instrumental cuts that follows the first track is, incredibly dynamic, detailed, and full of life, and even has the 'immersion effect' of the CS footers,

as this is the first time I have heard this LP with the footers installed. I'm going to have to put this album into my rotation now.

jeff1225 · Aug 12, 2018

What about D2D classical? Are there any stand out pressings to look out for?

bonzo75 · Aug 12, 2018

Just like with gear it is not possible to discuss recordings without knowing what exposure to recordings is. There are a lot of vinyl people I visited who did not know much about various labels themselves - and no I am not saying I do either. If you search on various forums there are many differing opinions on whether old originals, reissues, or D2Ds sound best. But very few of them have a good representation of each.

Recently been exposed to the differences between quality originals and in perspective the audiophile labels don't sound good in most cases. My exposure has only been a small sample at the General's. Some are quite good but still get beaten by originals. And frankly, very few have a sample big enough to make it representative for that label. So really to make a judgement on this one needs the kind of collection only oldies or vinyl collectors have.

I think recordings has been quite an epiphany in the hobby

DaveyF · Aug 12, 2018

bonzo75 said:
Just like with gear it is not possible to discuss recordings without knowing what exposure to recordings is. There are a lot of vinyl people I visited who did not know much about various labels themselves - and no I am not saying I do either. If you search on various forums there are many differing opinions on whether old originals, reissues, or D2Ds sound best. But very few of them have a good representation of each.

Recently been exposed to the differences between quality originals and in perspective the audiophile labels don't sound good in most cases. My exposure has only been a small sample at the General's. Some are quite good but still get beaten by originals. And frankly, very few have a sample big enough to make it representative for that label. So really to make a judgement on this one needs the kind of collection only oldies or vinyl collectors have.

I think recordings has been quite an epiphany in the hobby

+1

As I stated above, seems like a lot of people are making generalizations on this thread.

DaveyF · Aug 12, 2018

jeffrey_t said:
What about D2D classical? Are there any stand out pressings to look out for?

The Sheffield’s mentioned above are some very good classical ..Lab 7,8,4 and the Michael Newman LP’s...if you like classical guitar.
Do a search of their catalog online and you will see their releases, quite a variety of different types of music. The samplers...”The Sheffield Track record” and the “The Sheffield Drum record” are great ways to sample the sound quality that these LP’s are capable of...even if you don’t like the music on those particular releases. BTW, the Track record was considered by HP as the best sounding rock record ever released!

Ron Resnick · Aug 12, 2018

jadis said:
The Thelma Houston D2D piqued my curiosity. I haven't played it for quite some time now and I would like to find out if it is dull, tiny, or bright, as I read in this thread. My favorite track was Don't Misunderstand, and tonight, after playing it, I do not understand (no pun intended), how this can sound dull, tiny, or bright in other systems. It sounds fantastic, and like Ron, I love it. The bass, piano, horns, and vocals sounded really good, and in fact, I have nothing to complain about in this recording, or its musical content. The next 2 instrumental cuts that follows the first track is, incredibly dynamic, detailed, and full of life, and even has the 'immersion effect' of the CS footers, as this is the first time I have heard this LP with the footers installed. I'm going to have to put this album into my rotation now.

Thank you, Phil, for this data point confirming that I have not been wrong about the Sheffield Thelma Houston all of these years! Everyone I have visited knows that “I’ve Got the Music in Me” is one of my standard test tracks.

DaveyF · Aug 12, 2018

Ron Resnick said:
Thank you, Phil, for this data point confirming that I have not been wrong about the Sheffield Thelma Houston all of these years! Everyone I have visited knows that “I’ve Got the Music in Me” is one of my standard test tracks.

No Ron, you must be wrong, as there are posters here who absolutely hear NOTHING special about this LP in any way...poor imaging, poor tonal quality, veiled highs, indistinct lows,no musical quality whatsoever, noisy backgrounds, bright passages....
much better to listen to the Angel pressing that they just bought of their favorite pop music.

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