Replacing my Ref 3

brad225

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Nov 22, 2012
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I currently have a Ref 3 I would like to move up from.. I'm looking for opinions and I know there are plenty of them here. I like ARC equipment and will stay with them.

I am looking at used a Ref 5E or Ref 40 Anniversary. The Ref 40 is about $3,000-4000 more.

My system currently is PlayBack Designs MPS-5 w/ USB-X, REF 3, ARC 610T's, Martin Logan CLS IIz's and 4 Martin Logan Depth i subs. All analog cables and power cords are Shunyata. It is all in a dedicated room that is acoustically treated.

I'm sure I would be happy with either one but I'm willing to spend the extra money for the Ref 40 if there is enough difference based on the feedback. I have searched numerous sites and the general internet but have not found much of any comparison.

Any help would be appreciated.
 
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Audiophile Bill

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Mar 23, 2015
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You need to speak to Harlequin of this forum - he is ARC specialist and also Logan man.
 

nc42acc

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Nov 10, 2015
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Brad from the early reports I am hearing the REF6 should definitely be on your list. Also the REF5SE are becoming more common on the used market with people upgrading to the REF6. This is how I found mine. Good luck.
 

Lee

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Feb 3, 2011
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I just upgraded from a Ref 3 to a Ref 5SE. It was a nice jump up in bass definition and clarity. The Ref 6, surprisingly, is another jump up based on listening to a friend's system.

I bought my Ref 5SE used but in mint condition. I'm ecstatic about its performance to be honest. I'm done on preamps for a while.
 

Argonaut

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Jul 30, 2013
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Brad... I have replied to your PM at greater length, abridged version, REF 40 Anniversary :cool:
 

bonzo75

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I would suggest trying a different brand like VTL (good resale, better sounding, and suits both valve and SS amps. Look at how low the impedance is compared to AR and it outputs higher current). Or try Vac Signature from what I have read. Unfortunately latter not available in the UK.

ps: Am an ex-ref 3 owner, and not a VTL owner, so no bias. I now own Jadis JPL, which is much better and much less in used value. Only single ended though
 

bonzo75

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Have you any hands on experience of the REF40 then bonzo?

No. Personally after owning Ref 3 and Ref 110 and 2 big 16k monoblocks (which I heard on Summit X, forget the model), and seeing similar traits in the G series, and then reading reports of people who have moved away from it (usually for reasons consistent with my views) I am not a fan. My view is great for midrange, room fill, and air, I don't like it on bass, separation, and I find instruments flatter compared to other electronics. No special comparos done on Ref 40. But value wise Jadis, VTL, and NAT have always been much higher for me, and Jadis, VTL, and Vac are available in the US.
 

Argonaut

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Kedar, there is a considerable evolution across all perimeters between the Ref3 and Ref40.
 

SoundQcar

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Oct 12, 2011
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I just upgraded from a Ref 3 to a Ref 5SE. It was a nice jump up in bass definition and clarity.........

I bought my Ref 5SE used but in mint condition. I'm ecstatic about its performance to be honest. I'm done on preamps for a while.

I made the same exact progression and see it exactly the same way. Very nice upgrade and definitely something to consider now that quite a few appear to be dumping out of it for the REF6.

Oh....and I previously had a pair of ML Summit X's and the 5SE sounded splendid with them, as they do now with my Sonus Faber's.
 

brad225

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Nov 22, 2012
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Thanks for all the response. I got a good price and chose the Ref 40. Good news is I have the boxes in by music room. Bad news is I'm leaving town tonight until late Sunday. Oh well, just that much more excitement.
 

Argonaut

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Delighted for you Brad, I look forward to reading your impressions of the beast :D
 

Frank750

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Jul 8, 2011
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Great move Brad! You'll love the Ref40, especially with the 610Ts. I had the Ref3, Ref5 and Ref40 with 610ts and you'll love the combination.
 

brad225

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Finally got the 40 set up last night. First let me say OMG. I still feel the Ref3 is a very good preamp but the Ref40 is another world.

All this is based on 2-3 hours listening but the difference I heard when I went to the REF3 from a LS26 was a sizably smaller change than from the Ref3 to the Ref 40. If I was limited to 2 words it would be Refined and Controlled.

With the Ref3 I had an amazing depth and width of musical image, but with the 40 every sound has a life of its own. Delicately layered and interwoven. From the low end of bass strings and large drums being plucked and struck to the highest register keys on the piano you get an amazingly clear sound and image. So much so that pieces I have played dozens of times now had the added detail of more pluck of a string or a hammer hitting a string on the piano. Vocals and instruments have taken on a more lifelike size, with vocals moved back slightly as the stage became even deeper. It is absolutely stunning. Looking forward to getting the tubes warmed up this evening.

Thanks to all for their input.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Finally got the 40 set up last night. First let me say OMG. I still feel the Ref3 is a very good preamp but the Ref40 is another world.

All this is based on 2-3 hours listening but the difference I heard when I went to the REF3 from a LS26 was a sizably smaller change than from the Ref3 to the Ref 40. If I was limited to 2 words it would be Refined and Controlled.

With the Ref3 I had an amazing depth and width of musical image, but with the 40 every sound has a life of its own. Delicately layered and interwoven. From the low end of bass strings and large drums being plucked and struck to the highest register keys on the piano you get an amazingly clear sound and image. So much so that pieces I have played dozens of times now had the added detail of more pluck of a string or a hammer hitting a string on the piano. Vocals and instruments have taken on a more lifelike size, with vocals moved back slightly as the stage became even deeper. It is absolutely stunning. Looking forward to getting the tubes warmed up this evening.

Thanks to all for their input.

Congrats! Always great to hear about big upgrades...enjoy. No doubt you stand a good chance of it sounding even better as tubes warm up.
 

Argonaut

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That's grand brad, how many hours on the clock for your unit btw ? Don't forget my recommendation re fuse and power reg valves.
 

brad225

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Nov 22, 2012
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Sorry for the delay responding. My Ref 40 has about 1950 hrs broken in to a wonderful point. Spent a few hours listening tonight and I just keep being amazed.
I have started looking at tubes (valves) does the letter designation other than A eliminate them from your recommendation.
I will a while listening before making any changes to be able to make an accurate comparison in valves and fuses. I will try both out though, thanks.
 

rsorren1

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Sep 6, 2013
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Finally got the 40 set up last night. First let me say OMG. I still feel the Ref3 is a very good preamp but the Ref40 is another world.

All this is based on 2-3 hours listening but the difference I heard when I went to the REF3 from a LS26 was a sizably smaller change than from the Ref3 to the Ref 40. If I was limited to 2 words it would be Refined and Controlled.

With the Ref3 I had an amazing depth and width of musical image, but with the 40 every sound has a life of its own. Delicately layered and interwoven. From the low end of bass strings and large drums being plucked and struck to the highest register keys on the piano you get an amazingly clear sound and image. So much so that pieces I have played dozens of times now had the added detail of more pluck of a string or a hammer hitting a string on the piano. Vocals and instruments have taken on a more lifelike size, with vocals moved back slightly as the stage became even deeper. It is absolutely stunning. Looking forward to getting the tubes warmed up this evening.

Thanks to all for their input.
Brad, congrats. I did the same upgrade and had the same reaction with Ref210s. The Ref40 is simply remarkable. I also found a bit more foundation in the bass by putting a Shunyata Anaconda power cord on Ref40, and Shunyata King Cobras on the Ref 210s. You might want to try this. Anyway, enjoy and congrats.
 

Lee

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Feb 3, 2011
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Sorry for the delay responding. My Ref 40 has about 1950 hrs broken in to a wonderful point. Spent a few hours listening tonight and I just keep being amazed.
I have started looking at tubes (valves) does the letter designation other than A eliminate them from your recommendation.
I will a while listening before making any changes to be able to make an accurate comparison in valves and fuses. I will try both out though, thanks.

The Ref 40 is a special piece. I have heard it twice and its pretty amazing. Congratulations!
 

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