Or, as one of my skeptic friends likes to say, "The plural of anecdote is not data."
--Ethan
Audioquest HDMI cables
- Thread starter Bruce B
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Or, as one of my skeptic friends likes to say, "The plural of anecdote is not data."
--Ethan
If you plan on calling subjective listening impressions empirical data, I don't see the relevance in this forum unless it is attached to something else. The old saying the plural of anecdote is not data. (I see Ethan beat me by a few minutes)
Amir can answer , but if that is what you are after, why are the other few dozen sub-forums not enough for you? Why do you feel compelled to re-insert subjective sighted results when this forum is an area to have hopefully more useful discussions without the pollution of people objecting to measured or tested data?
It won't be valued in this subforum so don't know why you want to put it here. I put my shoes in one place in my closet and shirts another. Same here in on WBF. This subforum is focused on a set of topics based on accepted audio science. The rest is not.
So the forum as a whole very much allows it, just not in this subforum.
Sad.There was a time when opposing opinion was not only valued but required. It is unfortunate that their position is so fragile that they need to segregate themselves from opposing opinions. "Censorship is the child of fear and the father of ignorance."
...I'm trying to locate the measurement tests by the THX engineers before they certified their HDMI cables with their seal of approval.
I remember that good copper is one of the ingredient, and I think the terminations...between the cable's ends and connectors. ...Also, good insulation.
...I will find them and post them here...them THX HDMI cable certified measurements.
Are AudioQuest HDMI cables THX certified?
I remember that good copper is one of the ingredient, and I think the terminations...between the cable's ends and connectors. ...Also, good insulation.
...I will find them and post them here...them THX HDMI cable certified measurements.
Are AudioQuest HDMI cables THX certified?
That all ended when the opposition could not stay polite, constructive and unemotional about the discussion. Stop spitting on the sidewalk and there won't be signs saying not to....
This forum was created, not to segregate us from your opinions, but, hopelessly, to shelter you from data that challenges your anecdotal conventional wisdom. But clearly t's not working as you keep coming over here to deliberately read what you find so upsetting.
Tim
I suppose I could be offended. Reread the preamble to this subforum.
Apparently not.
So far, it's objectivists 1 and subjectivists -1, by my scoring. Even with all the attempts to non-confrontationally separate and focus discussions in this bottom of the list sub forum, it is the subjectivists who continue to complain ad nauseum about being "offended" by the discussion here, while they have free reign everywhere else. Apparently, their views are of such manifestly obvious "truthiness" that they must be allowed to prevail and have their say everywhere.
I want to ask you: What is wrong with data that may happen to be contrary to your opinion? We all want to be correct but you have to concede a point when data starts trending counter to. Especially data that is re-producible by unrelated parties.
Why do we need to be segregated into camps in the first place? What's wrong with having a balanced view on reality? Measurements have their value, and at the end of the day we all listen to music with our ears. We should all unite together towards a common goal. But I know, this is what some might say:
This is the measurements area, it's not a place for pointless subjective argument concerning the measurements... Its for guys that measure and for guys who enjoy reading thier exchanges.
What's going on?! We have the rest of WBF to wax on subjectively!
If you want to do battle here do it with measurements, not hypothetical rhetoric, arguing semantics, or by presenting some kind philosophical opposition.
I come here for education, maybe we can set up a thread on the subject of how the measurements related to our subjective impressions?
What's going on?! We have the rest of WBF to wax on subjectively!
If you want to do battle here do it with measurements, not hypothetical rhetoric, arguing semantics, or by presenting some kind philosophical opposition.
I come here for education, maybe we can set up a thread on the subject of how the measurements related to our subjective impressions?
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I come to WBF to read opposing points of view. If I knew everything I could just stay home.
I did not "spit on anyone's sidewalk." Literally or figuratively.
As far as I can see there needs to be a heavy dose of tolerance added to both sides of the fence.
I did not "spit on anyone's sidewalk." Literally or figuratively.
As far as I can see there needs to be a heavy dose of tolerance added to both sides of the fence.
Hi Bob et al., Well, this question is about measurements, sort of, so I'll reply.
My view is that THX has helped set and raise standards where a standard or reference of some sort has proven productive and/or necessary. Not everyone agrees with some of the THX stipulations, but a movie theater which at least pays attention to the THX standards is very likely to achieve a superior result.
However, THX is a for-profit business which makes money selling their approval, and seems to have spent an extraordinary amount of money working on establishing the value of their brand -- remember all those cool before-the-movie starts promos some years ago? Being for-profit doesn't mean dishonest or misleading, but it does mean that income is one of the fundamental ingredients in the business model.
It's a hearsay story, and I don't want to imply in any way that I have inside knowledge or access to the full story -- but I am sympathetic to the story that Monster Cable encouraged THX to develop a speaker-cable standard, so that Monster could license the right to put THX Certified on their cables. Philosophically, THX appears to be a measurements-only entity, and as such not inclined to believe in the sorts of design ingredients that I think make OMC/MC500 sound so much worse than comparable AWG electrical wire, or the design ingredients that I apply in my cables, so THX certified speaker cable provokes a bit of a "what?"
However it came to pass, THX did set an impedance standard (I don't believe it was even an LCR standard), and so even a cable sonically inferior to zip cord gained THX certification.
Back to HDMI -- There is currently a bit of a battle going on between 3 companies that all want an income stream from approving HDMI cables. UL has jumped into the fray, HDMI LLC themselves are in the game, and DPL has been looking for licensees the longest -- Jeffrey Boccaccio, DPL's chief engineer, president and spokesperson is certainly one of the most knowledgable people openly explaining and discussing HDMI. Then again, the Kordz literature explains about as much, Wikipedia even more. There are competent people out there, along with those who aren't.
Certification by any of these 3 entities could be a real value in that there are certainly HDMI cables available which don't meet HDMI specifications. However, if you stay off Alibaba, and only buy brand-name cable on Amazon, certification by any of these for-profit entities is essentially wasted money.
What is a credible brand-name is not a small question. In this case, I'm including Monoprice as a credible brand, they, like AudioQuest, Monster, Nordost, Kordz, Liberty and many others, are accountable in the marketplace, and to my current awareness make cables which are certifiable, were they willing to pay for a version of "protection" ... some do pay, that's their PR decision.
AudioQuest cables are tested in the same lab that certifies HDMI LLC's new Premium standard (along with previous standards) ... but I will not pay many thousands for the separate/redundant testing required before I would then pay many thousands more for the little gold stickers to put on my boxes. You will not see now, and I doubt you will ever see, AQ cables with paid-for approvals. I am open to the possibility that if a major (usually general merchandise) retailer chooses to buy cables from me under one of my several other brands, and insists on a particular approval, be it HDMI or UL or DPL, or THX, then I'll accept the order and its conditions, and do what's required -- but in the consumer electronics marketplace, I believe the AudioQuest brand is a comparable seal-of-approval.
Sincerely, Bill
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We have wondered into the wrong part of town my friend. Simple. It's not about tolerance, this is the baseball field... It's not for football. You want to play pool on a billiards table. No amount of tolerance makes that a good idea.
No one comes here, hardly anyone. It's measurement sanctuary, the poor dudes need a place to hide from us subjective nutjobs.
Hi Bill,
I would like to thank you for taking the time in writing a very polite and intelligent "good common sense" reply.
As a simple consumer I can only learn from the pros.
In this new era of Ultra High Definition (UHD Blu-ray) with HDMI 2.0a and all that it encompasses; HDR, Color expansion, 10-Bit, ...3D Audio immersion, etc., good HDMI cables (short passive runs, and long active ones) are becoming one of the most important (the most important) audio/video connection of them all. ...Even the gauge (higher the better, by lower numbers) counts. Some good solid basic measurements with the requirements assure a solid transmission line.
I was preoccupied with other interests so I did not take the time to provide that link on the new THX certified HDMI cables, but in time I will.
I keep reading here and there, comments about this brand and that one, and few patterns developed. I am all about quality and affordability. I believe the field is vast in that direction as it is in the other direction. The measurements (some of them) are important...I will come back on that later on, and they might be in this thread already, which I did not read in its entirety.
I truly appreciate your excellent information sharing, and your cordiality.
Best cheers, Bob
Been up in the loft looking for that hdmi cable lol I don't even go up there for my girlfriend! No joy so far.
In America we have a right to travel. Don't need no stinking ID or papers. Can't even be stopped unless you break the law. I'm never "in the wrong neighborhood." There is always somebody taking a stab at exclustivity. The internet is a wonderful thing. I do not have to find a technical library. Just type a couple of words and you find out just how wrong someone is.
I'm an information omnivore.
However it's amazing how many think their ill informed opinion is a fact.
I'm an information omnivore.
However it's amazing how many think their ill informed opinion is a fact.
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