installing 7 Furutech GTX-D NFC (R) outlets this morning

ayreman

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
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Ukraine
Thank you, Mike! Is there a way to move my question to appropriate section of the forum where knowledgeable people can see it and, hopefully, respond? Perhaps forum Moderator or Administrator could do that?

It really doesn't belong in your thread and I would really want to get some recommendations.
 

knghifi

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2014
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158
I had DaveC replaced the IECs and OUTLETs on my Weizhi PRS-6s with Furutech NCFs. As expected, the sound is more organic, lower noise floor ... very happy with the results. Still can't believe outlets can make such a difference.

DaveC also added a ground post to each Weizhi. The most remarkable improvement is tying the Weizhis together with his ground cable. It removed layers and layers of veil. Passages that were once congested and muffled are now crystal clear. Sound is more 3D, airy, tighter imaging, resolving, vivid ... I can crank up the volume several notches without any harshness.

DaveC, thanks for the quality work and excellent customer service.
 

DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
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I had DaveC replaced the IECs and OUTLETs on my Weizhi PRS-6s with Furutech NCFs. As expected, the sound is more organic, lower noise floor ... very happy with the results. Still can't believe outlets can make such a difference.

DaveC also added a ground post to each Weizhi. The most remarkable improvement is tying the Weizhis together with his ground cable. It removed layers and layers of veil. Passages that were once congested and muffled are now crystal clear. Sound is more 3D, airy, tighter imaging, resolving, vivid ... I can crank up the volume several notches without any harshness.

DaveC, thanks for the quality work and excellent customer service.

Hi King, thanks for posting your experience! I tried out the NCF'ed Weizhi power distributor in my own system and it was really nice, a clear improvement over my distributor with non-NCF GTX receptacles and IEC. The NCF parts sound more clear and natural, they remove just a bit of "polished" sound the non-NCF versions have, which must be noise the tourmaline powder is filtering out.

I do have some ideas on using tourmaline powder and crystals for AC power, for example adding tourmaline powder to potting compound and potting plugs and transformers... should be interesting! Piezo-based AC/ground filters also seem to show promise, which is likely what Tripoint, Entreq and Shunyata already do.

I am also very happy to hear the ground cable/connection between the two distributors helped in your case. Grounding a system is intended to keep every component's ground at the same potential, but in practice this is not possible due to leakage currents, magnetic coupling, etc. so there will always be some current flowing in the ground connections. These currents have no relation to the music signal and are noise, so we want to minimize them. Given Ohm's law, V=IR, reducing R reduces V, which is the voltage of the noise signal in this case. Running multiple lines to your system can increase R quite a bit, the longer the distance from the panel to the system the worse it can get as the grounds are only combined at the panel. So by tying the distributor's grounds together with a low impedance ground cable we can reduce noise and increase resolution, which leads to a better soundstage, more precise imaging, increased clarity and fine detail. Using multiple lines can increase instantaneous current capability, and in some systems it is necessary, but the increase in resistance between component grounds is very often overlooked and unless the system really needs the increased current capability it can often make things worse. Also, there is the possibility that multiple lines could create a huge ground loop, not generally an issue in homes but the possibility can be reduced by running multiple lines together and placing the distributors together. If this isn't the case, which it often is not, then a simple circuit to break ground loops can be inserted with a minor increase in R, which I did with your system since the ground cable was fairly long.

I know a lot of people here have multiple AC lines feeding their system, keep in mind this simple ground modification, I think it can improve a lot of folks' systems! You don't even necessarily need a binding post installed, often a chassis screw will work fine.
 

Speedskater

Well-Known Member
Sep 30, 2010
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Cleveland Ohio
...............................
Grounding a system is intended to keep every component's ground at the same potential, but in practice this is not possible due to leakage currents, magnetic coupling, etc. so there will always be some current flowing in the ground connections. These currents have no relation to the music signal and are noise, so we want to minimize them. Given Ohm's law, V=IR, reducing R reduces V, which is the voltage of the noise signal in this case. Running multiple lines to your system can increase R quite a bit, the longer the distance from the panel to the system the worse it can get as the grounds are only combined at the panel. So by tying the distributor's grounds together with a low impedance ground cable we can reduce noise and increase resolution, which leads to a better soundstage, more precise imaging, increased clarity and fine detail. Using multiple lines can increase instantaneous current capability, and in some systems it is necessary, but the increase in resistance between component grounds is very often overlooked and unless the system really needs the increased current capability it can often make things worse. Also, there is the possibility that multiple lines could create a huge ground loop, not generally an issue in homes but the possibility can be reduced by running multiple lines together and placing the distributors together. If this isn't the case, which it often is not, then a simple circuit to break ground loops can be inserted with a minor increase in R, which I did with your system since the ground cable was fairly long.
I know a lot of people here have multiple AC lines feeding their system, keep in mind this simple ground modification, I think it can improve a lot of folks' systems! You don't even necessarily need a binding post installed, often a chassis screw will work fine.
While DaveC and I often have very different view-points on things, in this case I agree with him 100 %.
 

knghifi

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2014
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I do have 2 dedicated 20 amp lines. One for amps and other for sources. All my audiophile level recordings always sound great so today I played only compressed music. Eagles, Springsteen, Santana, Heart ... and they never sounded better and at higher volume level. If you told me all the harshness is mainly from noise, I wouldn't believe it.
 

ayreman

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
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Ukraine
My question is to Joe Pittmann, DaveC, Mike and all those who took the plunge and installed Furutech GTX-D NCF(R) receptacles in their homes. What types of walls do you guys have those receptacles installed into: concrete, brick, wood, plaster board?
 

Champ04

Member
Sep 24, 2012
72
2
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Illinois
So I took one of my NCF based power cables out of my system so that a friend can borrow it. This cable was well broken in and sounding fantastic in my system.
But my friend is reporting that it is doing all of the quirky things that I experienced when I first installed it. It's as if the thing is breaking-in all over again.
Anyone else experience this phenomenon?
If so, I don't think I'll be shutting down my system to allow anyone to borrow my cables any more. Weird.
 

DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
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ayreman, I have standard wood 2x4/drywall walls and the box I installed the Wall Plate onto was a standard plastic box. Unlike most of audio, electric parts are standardized and while the GTX is larger than a typical unit, it should fit in any box.

Champ04, that's normal for moving the cable around, the good news is it should settle down in a matter of hours instead of weeks.
 

Kingsrule

VIP/Donor
Feb 3, 2011
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Plug install position
Which would be best to keep the cables secure?

Ground on top (standard vertical position) or having the plug in horizontal position?

I'm thinking horizontal would be best........
 

DaveC

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Nov 16, 2014
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Plug install position
Which would be best to keep the cables secure?

Ground on top (standard vertical position) or having the plug in horizontal position?

I'm thinking horizontal would be best........

Furutech recommends ground prong up, but the new NCF seems to have a stronger grip strength and it'll probably be fine any which way you want to install them.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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Furutech recommends ground prong up, but the new NCF seems to have a stronger grip strength and it'll probably be fine any which way you want to install them.

most of my power cords are the Absolute Sound (from Genesis) which are very light weight, so there is no pull on those and orientation does not matter. my 2 for the mono block amplifiers are the Evolution Acoustics TRPC (triple run power cords) where the cable is very heavy and stiff, those I use a wooden platform with a cable elevator on top and support it going into the wall to eliminate any stress on the plug, both male and IEC ends. all my power cords use the NCF outlets and plugs. all my outlets have conventional orientation (ground post down).
 

Lee

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Feb 3, 2011
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Furutech recommends ground prong up, but the new NCF seems to have a stronger grip strength and it'll probably be fine any which way you want to install them.

Yes. It has a firm grip on my Shunyata Alpha HC cable.
 

ayreman

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
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Ukraine
I have installed GTX-D NCF (R) outlet and powered my entire system (except the subs) from it. What I don't like is the lack of low base and bright/harsh highs. The rest is just as good, if not better than my alternative outlet AudioQuest NRG Edison (20 AMP). The NRG Edison gives stellar low base and very natural highs. Anyone wants to offer a comment on the above?
 

DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
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I have installed GTX-D NCF (R) outlet and powered my entire system (except the subs) from it. What I don't like is the lack of low base and bright/harsh highs. The rest is just as good, if not better than my alternative outlet AudioQuest NRG Edison (20 AMP). The NRG Edison gives stellar low base and very natural highs. Anyone wants to offer a comment on the above?

Give it some time, the issues you mention will go away.

If it hasn't been burned in you'll need some patience, even with burn in it takes some time, just a lot less. Without some time on a cable cooker I'd say 4 weeks at least.
 

ayreman

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
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Ukraine
Give it some time, the issues you mention will go away.

If it hasn't been burned in you'll need some patience, even with burn in it takes some time, just a lot less. Without some time on a cable cooker I'd say 4 weeks at least.

Dave, are you saying low base will eventually emerge and highs will mellow out?

Also, when you say 4 weeks, do you mean 4 weeks of playing musing 24/7? If I only listen to music 2-3 hrs every day, will it take 6 months?
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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Dave, are you saying low base will eventually emerge and highs will mellow out?

Also, when you say 4 weeks, do you mean 4 weeks of playing musing 24/7? If I only listen to music 2-3 hrs every day, will it take 6 months?

briefly; if your reference is somewhat warm low frequencies with moderate smear/blur, and you clean it up with more linear and articulate bass frequencies, then initial perception might be less bass. but maybe it's 'correct bass'. see what it does for the musical message and how it works for musical flow.

just my 2 cents on what I perceive that the GTX-D NDF (R) does. lower noise, less distortion.

but not every system has the same equation from those attributes. don't kill the messenger.
 

marty

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Ayreman,
Like everything else in audio, much of this comes down to personal taste. Some folks love the Furutech rhodium connectors, I do not as I find the top end timbrally unsatisfying.
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?23376-Fun-with-Metallurgy

If you don't wish to read the entire dissertation, just jump to the end. I close with 3 comments.
1) I used Furutech GTX-R, and not NCFs.
2) I have had them in the wall for 4 months and they never broke in to the point of being satisfactory in any way compared to other outlet metals.
3) I am clearly in the minority regarding the merits of rhodium outlets and AC connectors. Many audiophiles love them. I do not. I still have the bullet holes in my shirt for saying so.:p

Marty
 

DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
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Dave, are you saying low base will eventually emerge and highs will mellow out?

Also, when you say 4 weeks, do you mean 4 weeks of playing musing 24/7? If I only listen to music 2-3 hrs every day, will it take 6 months?

No, 4 weeks with average use is about right. I'd bet that eventually you'll find the result to be as close to perfectly neutral as possible with, as Mike said, less noise and distortion than before. It won't add warmth to the bass so you might feel it's a bit less than before but it should be an overall improvement in bass definition and resolution with no decrease in low bass.
 

ayreman

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
217
78
158
Ukraine
briefly; if your reference is somewhat warm low frequencies with moderate smear/blur, and you clean it up with more linear and articulate bass frequencies, then initial perception might be less bass. but maybe it's 'correct bass'. see what it does for the musical message and how it works for musical flow.

just my 2 cents on what I perceive that the GTX-D NDF (R) does. lower noise, less distortion.

but not every system has the same equation from those attributes. don't kill the messenger.

Mike, I am not complaining about bass generally. If we agree that bass consists of upper, middle and lower bass, it is the lower bass that I am unhappy with right now. Both upper and mid bass are there and they are good. But lower bass doesn't seem to be there at all! With GTX-D NDF (R) it just doesn't seem to be there, but it is there with AudioQuest NRG Edison.

My reference bass is VERY, VERY deep base that is perfectly articulate and detailed. After merciless modifications my subs are capable of producing that sort of bass. But with GTX-D NDF (R) the subs are kinda resting. They seem to receive less LF information.

Well, I guess the only thing to be done is just wait for a month and hope that lower bass will eventually emerge...
 

Stereophonic

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2013
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I was told that the new Oyaide M1/F1 has more resolution than NCF but more warm on the same time.
Any experience?

Furutech vs Oyaide.jpg
 

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