Dynaudio active speakers- the primary high end audio system form factor of the future

Blizzard · Jan 21, 2016

I'm not sure why Dynaudio's huge range of active wireless loudspeaker systems aren't talked about more around here. The form factor makes so much sense, that there's really no better way to do things. This day and age, most people just don't want all of the bulk and clutter in their living spaces. Besides there's so many technical advantages as well. Such as very short distance from the DAC, Amps and drivers. Ultra pure signal path. And the speakers are the only thing that is a must to be present nowadays in your listening room as all of the electronics can be built even better than everything else, in a very small form factor, and hidden in the cabinets.

The only thing I'm not a fan of with the system is, the limited audio format resolutions. Especially lack of DSD support. But it won't be long before that limitation is overcome. I firmly believe systems like this will be dominating the market by 2025.

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/dynaudio-focus-600-xd-active-wireless-digital-loudspeaker/

Phelonious Ponk · Jan 21, 2016

Blizzard said:
I'm not sure why Dynaudio's huge range of active wireless loudspeaker systems aren't talked about more around here. The form factor makes so much sense, that there's really no better way to do things. This day and age, most people just don't want all of the bulk and clutter in their living spaces. Besides there's so many technical advantages as well. Such as very short distance from the DAC, Amps and drivers. Ultra pure signal path. And the speakers are the only thing that is a must to be present nowadays in your listening room as all of the electronics can be built even better than everything else, in a very small form factor, and hidden in the cabinets.

The only thing I'm not a fan of with the system is, the limited resolution of the audio format resolutions. Especially lack of DSD support. But it won't be long before that limitation is overcome. I firmly believe systems like this will be dominating the market by 2025.

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/dynaudio-focus-600-xd-active-wireless-digital-loudspeaker/

I'll take it a step further. I'm frustrated that there isn't a large offering of high quality active speakers available for consumers. Sorry that the other great studio monitor companies aren't repackaging their pro products in domestic-friendly cabinets and making better technology and more intuitive design available to music lovers. But the "high-end" hobby is not about intuitive, convenient design. It is about buying, selling and tweaking. It is largely populated by people who love the gear itself and love to get personally involved in shaping the sound of their systems through gear choices. Nothing wrong with that, but that's the hobby. Systems like the Dynas aren't talked about here because they combine DAC, pre, amps and speakers all in compact, elegant, professionally-engineered instead of hobbyist - "synergized" solutions. They leave discussion boards like WBF with nothing to discuss. And they leave gearphiles with nothing to play with.

In a single purchase, a product like this ends this hobby, and leaves us with nothing left to do but listen to music. And that, my friend, is a different hobby.

Tim

Ronm1 · Jan 21, 2016

While not wireless and proprietary. TMK isn't this the Meridian philosophy, so speaker correction can be dealt with on the fly.

Ronm1 · Jan 21, 2016

While I certainly am fond of my H/w. It is of little value without a love for many music genre's. They are, with all my audio buds, intertwined and have an unbreakable bond.

JackD201 · Jan 21, 2016

Phelonious Ponk said:
I'll take it a step further. I'm frustrated that there isn't a large offering of high quality active speakers available for consumers. Sorry that the other great studio monitor companies aren't repackaging their pro products in domestic-friendly cabinets and making better technology and more intuitive design available to music lovers. But the "high-end" hobby is not about intuitive, convenient design. It is about buying, selling and tweaking. It is largely populated by people (sic)... love to get personally involved in shaping the sound of their systems

Tim

I agree with the bolded portion (with a deletion) but don't want to assume the motivations to such a blanketed extent. It varies too wildly from those seeking to approximate a lifetime's worth of experience to simply status hunters.

One thing about the Dynaudio's carried by my friendly competitor is that more often than not they have ended up being an entry drug of sorts. Surely satisfying for many but not satisfying enough for those with more ambitious performance seeded by these very products. The vast majority ended up going up the Dyn ladder, all the way up in one case.

One thing I am certain of is that all of us here, sub, ob, or even the absolutists have one thing in common. All of us are after performance above what we'd normally see anywhere at The 'shacks, Best Buys, Frys, Walmarts, , IOW, the usual domestic consumer retail channels. Even in pro land (Musician/DJ stores) you'd have to go out of your way to get the better offerings from Dynaudio, Focal, Genelec, JBL, Tannoy Ellipses, and then later, explore those from Meyer, Neumann, Westlake, Kinoshita Rey, Ocean Way et al. No contest IME between a Dyn Air to a similarly configured Mackie or Samson or, gasp, the really nasty stuff from the likes of K...z..t.

I think the reason these products are not talked about so much here is A) we're older than the market these are targeted for and B) This forum attracts the most intense segment (whatever the camp). Nothing nefarious. That's not to say that the aren't in fact talked about in other forums. They are. At this time it is still a niche and these all in one systems are dominated by bluetooth speakers and Bose.

Phelonious Ponk · Jan 21, 2016

I agree with the bolded portion (with a deletion) but don't want to assume the motivations to such a blanketed extent. It varies too wildly from those seeking to approximate a lifetime's worth of experience to simply status hunters.

Neither did I. I'm sorry it sounded that way. I'm sure there are many audiophiles who are absolutely sure that their tweaking and component swapping is a better path to fidelity than a top-quality, engineer-integrated system like the Dynas.

One thing about the Dynaudio's carried by my friendly competitor is that more often than not they have ended up being an entry drug of sorts. Surely satisfying for many but not satisfying enough for those with more ambitious performance seeded by these very products. The vast majority ended up going up the Dyn ladder, all the way up in one case.

I'm sure that's true.

Tim

DaveC · Jan 21, 2016

Phelonious Ponk said:
I'll take it a step further. I'm frustrated that there isn't a large offering of high quality active speakers available for consumers. Sorry that the other great studio monitor companies aren't repackaging their pro products in domestic-friendly cabinets and making better technology and more intuitive design available to music lovers. But the "high-end" hobby is not about intuitive, convenient design. It is about buying, selling and tweaking. It is largely populated by people who love the gear itself and love to get personally involved in shaping the sound of their systems through gear choices. Nothing wrong with that, but that's the hobby. Systems like the Dynas aren't talked about here because they combine DAC, pre, amps and speakers all in compact, elegant, professionally-engineered instead of hobbyist - "synergized" solutions. They leave discussion boards like WBF with nothing to discuss. And they leave gearphiles with nothing to play with.

In a single purchase, a product like this ends this hobby, and leaves us with nothing left to do but listen to music. And that, my friend, is a different hobby.

Tim

The industry simply reflects the market. There are a lot, in fact far too many, audio manufacturers and they would like nothing better than to come up with products the market will buy. So far full active speakers aren't interesting to the market. It removes the system building aspect from the hobby and isn't traditional, the market is mostly older folks and they want traditional.

Maybe when we get some decent sounding full-active speakers on the market things will change but TBH I haven't heard one yet that come close to the best traditional systems. And if you say Kii3 I'll have to hunt you down, they are awful!

Goldmund wasn't convincing either, and they are elitist douchebags anyways.

Blizzard · Jan 21, 2016

DaveC said:
The industry simply reflects the market. There are a lot, in fact far too many, audio manufacturers and they would like nothing better than to come up with products the market will buy. So far full active speakers aren't interesting to the market. It removes the system building aspect from the hobby and isn't traditional, the market is mostly older folks and they want traditional.

Maybe when we get some decent sounding full-active speakers on the market things will change but TBH I haven't heard one yet that come close to the best traditional systems. And if you say Kii3 I'll have to hunt you down, they are awful! Goldmund wasn't convincing either, and they are elitist douchebags anyways.

Have you heard the Dynaudio 600 XD's yet Dave? I know this concept isn't good for the cable business

Blizzard · Jan 21, 2016

Phelonious Ponk said:
I'll take it a step further. I'm frustrated that there isn't a large offering of high quality active speakers available for consumers. Sorry that the other great studio monitor companies aren't repackaging their pro products in domestic-friendly cabinets and making better technology and more intuitive design available to music lovers. But the "high-end" hobby is not about intuitive, convenient design. It is about buying, selling and tweaking. It is largely populated by people who love the gear itself and love to get personally involved in shaping the sound of their systems through gear choices. Nothing wrong with that, but that's the hobby. Systems like the Dynas aren't talked about here because they combine DAC, pre, amps and speakers all in compact, elegant, professionally-engineered instead of hobbyist - "synergized" solutions. They leave discussion boards like WBF with nothing to discuss. And they leave gearphiles with nothing to play with.

In a single purchase, a product like this ends this hobby, and leaves us with nothing left to do but listen to music. And that, my friend, is a different hobby.

Tim

The way of tweaking in the future, is with DSP profiles. Tweakers can still tweak till their heart's content, only it will be software based instead of hardware based. People need to realize we are in the information age now. The industrial age has passed, and business models that were solid back in the industrial age, simply aren't going to last in the information age. So all the old school thinkers are simply going to have to adapt, or perish.

DaveC · Jan 21, 2016

Blizzard said:
Have you heard the Dynaudio 600 XD's yet Dave? I know this concept isn't good for the cable business

No, but I'd make a guess that Dynaudio actives won't be earth shattering. Maybe I'm wrong...

Wireless... no ICs, no SCs... well, maybe some ICs and digital cables for external sources. Yeah, better avoid that! It can't possibly be good.

Although, partially active speakers seem to do fine, that's the direction I'm headed. Active bass, passive mids/highs...

Blizzard · Jan 21, 2016

DaveC said:
No, but I'd make a guess that Dynaudio actives won't be earth shattering. Maybe I'm wrong...

Wireless... no ICs, no SCs... well, maybe some ICs and digital cables for external sources. Yeah, better avoid that! It can't possibly be good.

Although, partially active speakers seem to do fine, that's the direction I'm headed. Active bass, passive mids/highs...

You just might be surprised. The Dynaudio team are serious audiophiles.

Johnny Vinyl · Jan 21, 2016

DaveC said:
No, but I'd make a guess that Dynaudio actives won't be earth shattering. Maybe I'm wrong...

Wireless... no ICs, no SCs... well, maybe some ICs and digital cables for external sources. Yeah, better avoid that! It can't possibly be good.

Although, partially active speakers seem to do fine, that's the direction I'm headed. Active bass, passive mids/highs...

But doesn't a reduction of either components and their connectivity needs lead to a more direct path, which I thought was a good thing?

Blizzard · Jan 21, 2016

Johnny Vinyl said:
But doesn't a reduction of either components and their connectivity needs lead to a more direct path, which I thought was a good thing?

They can still use Dave's cable, only inches will be required rather than feet

Anyone arguing against this, is simply burying their heads in the sand. It's bar none a better way to build a system. Far more efficient, and cost effective as well.

DaveC · Jan 21, 2016

Johnny Vinyl said:
But doesn't a reduction of either components and their connectivity needs lead to a more direct path, which I thought was a good thing?

I'm just kidding.

KeithR · Jan 21, 2016

Blizzard said:
The way of tweaking in the future, is with DSP profiles. Tweakers can still tweak till their heart's content, only it will be software based instead of hardware based. People need to realize we are in the information age now. The industrial age has passed, and business models that were solid back in the industrial age, simply aren't going to last in the information age. So all the old school thinkers are simply going to have to adapt, or perish.

We've had active speakers for 25 years. Meridian at the high end, Paradigm at the low end. Maybe its not that simple.

I've heard the top of the line Dynaudio 600s at Newport - they bottomed out at higher volumes (>90db) leaving me disappointed (and I have owned Dyns for years). Perhaps the sealed cabinet wasn't inert enough. The sound wasn't particularly special - like my C1s with Pass X250.5 was.

I have a demo of the Avantgarde Zero 1s soon as well which I assume will fare better.

Phelonious Ponk · Jan 21, 2016

DaveC said:
The industry simply reflects the market. There are a lot, in fact far too many, audio manufacturers and they would like nothing better than to come up with products the market will buy. So far full active speakers aren't interesting to the market. It removes the system building aspect from the hobby and isn't traditional, the market is mostly older folks and they want traditional.

Maybe when we get some decent sounding full-active speakers on the market things will change but TBH I haven't heard one yet that come close to the best traditional systems. And if you say Kii3 I'll have to hunt you down, they are awful! Goldmund wasn't convincing either, and they are elitist douchebags anyways.

I haven't heard the Kii3 or the Goldmunds, but I've heard pro audio active monitor/sub combinations, even without DSP, that are better than many full-range audiophile systems at many multiples of their cost. I've even heard some good PA that kills most old school high-end systems. Seriously, put the behind a curtain in a big enough room and you'd think you were listening to high-end hifi. Great scale and dynamics, dead quiet and about as linear off axis as you can expect a speaker system to be. But we're talking about a level of fidelity at which the differences are really a matter of taste and application, so there will always be disagreement, and that's ok.

Tim

DaveC · Jan 21, 2016

Phelonious Ponk said:
I haven't heard the Kii3 or the Goldmunds, but I've heard pro audio active monitor/sub combinations, even without DSP, that are better than many full-range audiophile systems at many multiples of their cost. I've even heard some good PA that kills most old school high-end systems. Seriously, put the behind a curtain in a big enough room and you'd think you were listening to high-end hifi. Great scale and dynamics, dead quiet and about as linear off axis as you can expect a speaker system to be. But we're talking about a level of fidelity at which the differences are really a matter of taste and application, so there will always be disagreement, and that's ok.

Tim

Yeah, I have not heard really good pro actives but I'd like to hear some JBL and PMC monitors.

Blizzard · Jan 22, 2016

KeithR said:
We've had active speakers for 25 years. Meridian at the high end, Paradigm at the low end. Maybe its not that simple.

I've heard the top of the line Dynaudio 600s at Newport - they bottomed out at higher volumes (>90db) leaving me disappointed (and I have owned Dyns for years). Perhaps the sealed cabinet wasn't inert enough. The sound wasn't particularly special - like my C1s with Pass X250.5 was.

I have a demo of the Avantgarde Zero 1s soon as well which I assume will fare better.

Well the woofers bottoming out is not an issue related to this form factor. You need to also factor in you are paying for a complete system cables, and all when you buy speakers like these. So when comparing these to similar priced conventional systems, make sure to factor in the DAC, pre, amps, cables, audio rack and everything into the equation. $13500 dealer MSRP doesn't get you much these days for a complete conventional system.

Blizzard · Jan 22, 2016

spazmatron said:
Don't like the idea of active everything, but active bass passive mid and high is the way everything should be.

Well it does have to be done right to be perfection. I figure it would take an MSRP of $80K to build a true no compromise active speaker system.

Blizzard · Jan 22, 2016

spazmatron said:
I wish my vivids had a class d amp and dsp inside driving the woofers to perfection for my environment and making sure they don't get over loaded by naughty electronica and dub.

Everything in one box is hard for obvious reasons, both electronic and customer based. That's why it's limited in popularity.

It always makes me laugh when you see marketing photos of hifi set ups with no cables etc.

It can be done good, if done right. It's mainly limited in popularity due to the technology finally available to do it right is very new. The new generation of open minded will embrace it.

Dynaudio active speakers- the primary high end audio system form factor of the future

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