System for 10K that will shame $30K systems all day long!

Blizzard

Banned
Sep 30, 2015
3,049
3
0
Hi Guys,

I thought I'd make a solid contribution to the forum by putting a no compromise system recommendation together, that I feel would be very difficult to beat for under $10000. All the components are available online from various vendors.

I'd like to start at the beginning of the playback chain, and work towards the end. I will leave nothing out that's required to make this system turnkey, and smooth as silk to operate.

First off we will start with a server computer. The latest trend we are seeing in the high end audio world is all kinds of "audiophile servers" popping up for insane amounts of money. I've found through practice, that the only way these overpriced servers can offer any benefit, is if you connect them direct to the DAC. Well, back in the old days before better ways were discovered, that may have been a decent solution. But luckily better ways that are much less expensive have been discovered. This better way is using the server to preform all the heavy computing tasks, and sending the audio via fiber optics to a lightweight, low cost streamer computer, that runs a very lightweight operating system, and has a low noise footprint. I'm not going to get into why this is a better way to do things here. I covered this in detail already on my streamer thread for anyone who's interested.

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?19221-Streamer-to-kill-the-big-boys-for-under-250

You will also find if you read my streamer thread, that you can get much much better sound out of your DAC by using HQplayer to perform the filtering/modulation normally handled inside of the DAC, on software running inside the server. Again I won't go into the details here because it's well covered in my streamer thread.

As far as GUI goes, the best available circa 2016 is Roon. They have a stunning iPad app, and also integrate Tidal seamlessly into your personal collection. And of course, it can work together with HQplayer, to utilize HQplayer's engine for up sampling/modulation.


One of the drawbacks of HQplayer, is it requires a powerful server to operate smoothly. The superior algorithms it preforms are very resource intensive. But luckily computer horsepower is cheap these days, and since we are using fiber isolation, and a streamer, a run of the mill off the shelf computer such as a Dell or Hp is perfectly adequate for the task.

So let's get down to the hardware. First up the server:

Something with the Intel I7 6700 quad core CPU and Nvidia video card (because HQplayer can use it to help process) is perfect. Here's an example, but feel free to choose anything similar:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-XPS-89...730-1TB-8GB-Wifi-WINDOWS-10-NEW-/141841763525

Now on to the fiber isolated streamer system powered by clean supplies:

Screenshot (7).jpg Screenshot (9).png Screenshot (10).jpg

And let's not forget Bob Sherman's contribution of the Cat 7 cable. You will need 2 of these for the FMC's"

http://www.amazon.com/Rosewill-Shie..._UL160_SR160,160_&refRID=1PBZDTR3ZTY0P25KXZ82

From there we will need to connect to a DAC. Well the best commercial DAC design I've seen yet for anywhere near the price is bar none the Gustard X20. As Marty said in this thread:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?19433-Chinese-DAC-shames-a-few-heavy-hitters

It shames many DAC's costing much much more. And I can just imagine with HQplayer resampling:

https://www.shenzhenaudio.com/gusta...018-xmos-hifi-dac-384khz-dsd-dop-decoder.html

Since the X20 has a robust output stage, and internal volume control, no preamp is required, if used with an amp with a very robust input stage. Well I know just the amp. In fact I was the one who came up with the input stage design idea for this amp. I feel that this amp could slaughter pretty much everything out there under 10K when used with the option of the Sparko discrete opamp input stage.

What I'm referring to is the Nord One NC500 MB, with the Nord One up buffer stage and Sparko Discrete opamps. We are talking 700W per side into 4 ohms of power that could seriously compete with almost anything out there at any price!

http://www.iqspeakers.co.uk/#!hypex-amps/avuyk

As far as speakers go, I discovered a bookshelf kit that would shame $10K speakers all day long. It was designed by Accuton and Mundorf in Germany, and uses crazy good drivers and xover components. The mid woofers are Accutons like used in many speakers costing between $10000-$350000 per pair, and the tweeters are the phenomenal Mundorf air motions. Very exotic drivers. and the Xover components, even in the standard version are on par with the best Magico's. And then there's the silver/gold version which are even better than what Magico uses! Loaded up with all the very best components (silver/gold in oil caps), the cost is only $2999 a pair. You must assemble it, but only takes an hour with a screwdriver.

Datasheet: http://www.mundorf.com/PDF/Mundorf_MA30_Catalog.pdf

North American distributor:

http://shop.grantfidelity.com/Mundorf-MA30-Anniversity-Bookshelf-Speaker-Kithtml.html

There's also a companion sub cabinet in the works to make it an insane 30-30 full range super speaker. See Datasheet

So I guess all we have left is the cables. Well I haven't seen better value in cables yet than what Dave C of Zenwave audio offers. His cables are on par with the best of the best at a much cheaper price point, being a direct seller.

So let's add his 0.5M D2 interconnects with XLR's for the amp to DAC connections:

http://www.zenwaveaudio.com/product/d2-interconnect/

and a 12ft pair of his SL speaker cables:


http://www.zenwaveaudio.com/product/speaker-cable-3/

As far as USB cable for the streamer to the DAC, I find the Furutech GT-2 is excellent. So lets throw in a 0.3m cable:

http://www.partsconnexion.com/wire_usb_furutech_gt2p.html

If I missed a detail or 2 I will update as we go. But now for the tally, and grand total:

Server= $799
Hqplayer= $93 from member Bibo01
Roon= $119 per year
Streamer system with fibre and all upgrades= $719.39
DAC=$799
Pair of mono block amps= $2120 (at today's exchange rate)
Speakers loaded will all options/upgrades: $2999
interconnects= $624
Speaker cables: $900
USB cable= $204

Let's add another $100 for shipping (although most items are free shipping)

And just incase we have people who think the hour of assembly of the speakers is too much, let's add $500 to ship to me first to assemble.

Grand total= $9976.39

There we go. And that includes $500 to assemble the speakers!! If anyone knows a better system for anywhere near the price please share. If I learn of a better way to do any aspect of this system, I'll update this post.

I would like this thread to be the definitive thread on the internet when it comes to "What's best" for $10k or under. So suggestions welcome, but be aware, any suggestions will be heavily scrutinized before making the cut :)
 
Last edited:

Blizzard

Banned
Sep 30, 2015
3,049
3
0
Totally awesome Mike!

And if I may; can I suggest another thread for a $5,000 sound system setup.

I'll work on it Bob. I think if we just go lower end on the cables, get the stereo version of the amp with standard input buffer, and different speakers we can cut the price majorly, and still have a giant killing system for closer to $5k.
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
6,455
29
405
Blizz


This is completely out of the beaten path! I like that. And in term of value! WoW!! Assuming it is that good... The questions, with all respect : Have you heard this system? If someone is interested where can they audition this system? I am not a big fan of the concept of "synergy" but a case can be made for things that are good intrinsically but don't work together well. Also not full range IMO.
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
Blizz


This is completely out of the beaten path! I like that. And in term of value! WoW!! Assuming it is that good... The questions, with all respect : Have you heard this system? If someone is interested where can they audition this system? I am not a big fan of the concept of "synergy" but a case can be made for things that are good intrinsically but don't work together well. Also not full range IMO.

I missed the subwoofer.
 

sbo6

VIP/Donor
May 18, 2014
1,659
593
480
Round Rock, TX
How about synergy? You are assuming all these components will sound exemplary together, but until you try them....

Also, I never heard of a GPU being used by an audio app to do processing. How is this done?
 

cjf

Well-Known Member
Nov 19, 2012
452
101
948

Hello,

I'm curious if you have personal experience with either of the two power supplies listed above and what your assessment is of them. Have you tried either of them powering the same piece of equipment considering both of the supplies above could be ordered with a similar output voltage?

I've been eyeballing the iFi for a while now but haven't pulled the trigger on it due to seeing complaints from Users about its tendency to generate a quite audible high pitched whistle that can be heard from several feet away and the units generating an abnormal amount of heat. Not sure if that is something you've experienced or not with the iFi but I have see it mentioned on multiple forums and from multiple sources since its release. If its true it would be a shame because the price is attractive and the Specs look impressive.

Thanks
 

scouter

Member Sponsor
Oct 30, 2012
241
4
0
Wrightsville Beach, NC
Mike,
Great post!! I have ordered a Gustard X 20 (based on you and Marty's recommendation), and its on its way. Can't wait to try it in MY system and compare it to my Yggy.
As to the system, have you heard it? The individual components are no doubt great, but there IS a thing called synergy. Anyone who doesn't believe it has never been down the primrose path of assembling a system comprised of Absolute Sound or Stereophile recommended components, only to be dismayed at the sound. -- Speaking from experience :(
Having said that, I like where you are going. Great music reproduction in a home shouldn't be limited by $$$, only exuberance! (Which, I might add, you have plenty- and that's a good thing)
 

Blizzard

Banned
Sep 30, 2015
3,049
3
0
Blizz


This is completely out of the beaten path! I like that. And in term of value! WoW!! Assuming it is that good... The questions, with all respect : Have you heard this system? If someone is interested where can they audition this system? I am not a big fan of the concept of "synergy" but a case can be made for things that are good intrinsically but don't work together well. Also not full range IMO.

Well the only way you will be able to audition this system is by buying it, or going to a friends place who bought it. I can assure you it would be very easy to spend over $40k, and get less of a system.

As far as "Synergy" once upon a time that was something that was very important. But now that we have software based SRC/SDM, that allows you to "tune" the sound to your tastes, all you need is very transparent components to achieve what you're looking for. Each component in this system is giant killing. The speakers and amps alone, would compete with what's out there for $20000+, let alone everything else.

as far as being full range, yes you're correct. But it has always been my opinion that I would rather have a speaker that does from 40z up amazingly, than one that does 20-20hz mediocre. You simply won't get a speaker using this grade of components for anywhere near the price. If you want 20-20Hz in a floor standing all Accuton system, look at paying $70000 plus retail from a dealer.
 

Blizzard

Banned
Sep 30, 2015
3,049
3
0
How about synergy? You are assuming all these components will sound exemplary together, but until you try them....

Also, I never heard of a GPU being used by an audio app to do processing. How is this done?


That's one of the chances you take when buying a system that would cost around $30000-40000 from a dealer, for $10000. If you don't like the synergy, tune it to your tastes with HQplayer. There's a pile of info on the Computer Audiophile HQplayer thread if you want to find out more about the GPU offloading feature in HQplayer.
 

Blizzard

Banned
Sep 30, 2015
3,049
3
0
Hello,

I'm curious if you have personal experience with either of the two power supplies listed above and what your assessment is of them. Have you tried either of them powering the same piece of equipment considering both of the supplies above could be ordered with a similar output voltage?

I've been eyeballing the iFi for a while now but haven't pulled the trigger on it due to seeing complaints from Users about its tendency to generate a quite audible high pitched whistle that can be heard from several feet away and the units generating an abnormal amount of heat. Not sure if that is something you've experienced or not with the iFi but I have see it mentioned on multiple forums and from multiple sources since its release. If its true it would be a shame because the price is attractive and the Specs look impressive.

Thanks

I haven't tried them myself, but there's scores of folks that have. They are both proven quality supplies, with measurements to back them up.
 

Blizzard

Banned
Sep 30, 2015
3,049
3
0
Mike,
Great post!! I have ordered a Gustard X 20 (based on you and Marty's recommendation), and its on its way. Can't wait to try it in MY system and compare it to my Yggy.
As to the system, have you heard it? The individual components are no doubt great, but there IS a thing called synergy. Anyone who doesn't believe it has never been down the primrose path of assembling a system comprised of Absolute Sound or Stereophile recommended components, only to be dismayed at the sound. -- Speaking from experience :(
Having said that, I like where you are going. Great music reproduction in a home shouldn't be limited by $$$, only exuberance! (Which, I might add, you have plenty- and that's a good thing)


As I already commented, "Synergy" isn't as important in the modern age of audio, where we can tune systems to our tastes in the digital domain. "Transparency" is what we need to look for. And I can assure you, this system will have it in spades.
 

Blizzard

Banned
Sep 30, 2015
3,049
3
0
any one who thinks they can buy componants without listening to them in your house and strap them together thinking its sure to turn you on is nuts.
mike could put this system together and be happy its working to spec and might feel he enjoys listening to it but thats got very little to do with whether you will like it. if you never herd good kit then yes he could be confident but otherwise who knows.

so its not a matter of him trying it YOU have to try it in your home.

oh and you got to set it up right.... not a given


Yes, try in your home, and if it's not to your tastes, simply return everything. But the chances of that happening are very slim.
 

Blizzard

Banned
Sep 30, 2015
3,049
3
0
two things that can bring music or if implimented poorly take it away...
ac power treatment
isolation or cupling or what ever the system but a rack is needed. cheap bamboo one mike will be fine but also speaker stands.

Grant Audio also sells matching stands for $350. If you assemble the speakers yourself, total system cost is still under $10K with the stands.
 

Blizzard

Banned
Sep 30, 2015
3,049
3
0
you would be shocked if you knew what 50k gets you from a firm that installs and intergrates hifi like this in your home out of that budget the amount spent on hardware may well be less than this system. most of the money goes on install as the customer knows nothing about audio kit.

It wouldn't be something I would pay. I think a simple system like this could be easily setup by the average joe in a couple hours.
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
6,455
29
405
Don't care about the term "Synergy" ... there are in my opinion better terms but to use one of your favorite expression :" It is well known" :) that some components do not work together well. So the questions remain? Have you heard this system you are proposing or similar or is it only based on components of individual great merits... but it is for he believer to find out... how they would work as a system!?
 

Blizzard

Banned
Sep 30, 2015
3,049
3
0
Don't care about the term "Synergy" ... there are in my opinion better terms but to use one of your favorite expression :" It is well known" :) that some components do not work together well. So the questions remain? Have you heard this system you are proposing or similar or is it only based on components of individual great merits... but it is for he believer to find out... how they would work as a system!?


I haven't heard everything. I've heard the speakers, and they are far far beyond their price range. They were designed 100% in Germany by Accuton and Mundorf, and those guys are the world leaders in uber high end drivers and crossovers.

The amps, I came up with the buffer design myself, I just shared the idea on Diyaudio, and Colin decided to build it for his amps. So I'm very familiar how they sound which is game changing for class D at any price. Put's the Devialet 400's to shame all day long.


As far as the cables, I have experience with the same copper and the same connectors, but not Dave's version. His version is even better. All I can say is the Neotech copper is the worlds finest copper, and you won't beat the Furutech or WBT connectors.

The streamer of course I have tried as I came up with the system. And the DAC. I haven't tried, but I know a great design when I see one, and I trust Marty's opinion, as well as everyone else who has tried it.

I made a challenge on another thread to put this head to head against a recommended $30K system. Let's see if they step up to the plate for the challenge :)
 
Last edited:

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
Don't care about the term "Synergy" ... there are in my opinion better terms but to use one of your favorite expression :" It is well known" :) that some components do not work together well. So the questions remain? Have you heard this system you are proposing or similar or is it only based on components of individual great merits... but it is for he believer to find out... how they would work as a system!?

Frantz, you are asking Mike something he has already communicated. ...Not the full system together.

Now, I propose this: If anyone can get me all the components of Mike $10,000 system for review, I will take all my time to set it up correctly, and listen to it, and take notes, and write a review...totally fair and objective to the best of the tools I have and subjective to the best of my older set of ears. I'll supply my time. :b
 

RayDunzl

New Member
Jun 26, 2014
289
2
0
Tampa
any one who thinks they can buy componants without listening to them in your house and strap them together thinking its sure to turn you on is nuts.

I did.

There's not one piece of my current set that I "listened to" before purchase.
 

Blizzard

Banned
Sep 30, 2015
3,049
3
0
Frantz, you are asking Mike something he has already communicated. ...Not the full system together.

Now, I propose this: If anyone can get me all the components of Mike $10,000 system for review, I will take all my time to set it up correctly, and listen to it, and take notes, and write a review...totally fair and objective to the best of the tools I have and subjective to the best of my older set of ears. I'll supply my time. :b

Someone should be able to recognize the value here and jump on the whole system. After all how could you possibly do better for the price is beyond my knowledge. But as I said, if someone can step up to the plate with a better alternative to any of the components on this list, I'll update the system. It will be great once we get guys to go for the whole package.
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing