Upgrading

jasbirnandra

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Apr 3, 2012
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Hello friends getting an opportunity to upgrade the Dartzeel Integrated 8550 to Dartzeel Pre 18NS Power 108 but funds are limited so will buy one piece at a time what should it be first the Pre or the Power, the INT.will be used with the first piece upgraded till I manage to sell the Int to fund the next piece what is the opinion of all you guys Thank you
 

FrantzM

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Apr 20, 2010
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Hello friends getting an opportunity to upgrade the Dartzeel Integrated 8550 to Dartzeel Pre 18NS Power 108 but funds are limited so will buy one piece at a time what should it be first the Pre or the Power, the INT.will be used with the first piece upgraded till I manage to sell the Int to fund the next piece what is the opinion of all you guys Thank you

Go with the amp. The preamps may be closer than you anticipated...
 

Billy Shears

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Jul 27, 2015
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Are you using the Phonostage in the Integrated?
 

Billy Shears

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asiufy

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At some point, I had the CTH-8550, and also wanted to move to the separates. I bought them both, but I took delivery of the preamp first, so I had the chance to try the CTH as an amp only. I can tell you, for sure, the CTH is a fantastic amp on its own :) Once I got the 108, I noticed more refinement overall. Even though the 108 is not as powerful (on paper) as the CTH, I didn't notice any diminished dynamics, at least on the speakers I used back them (Dynaudio, Focal, Sonus faber, Magico).

Given that there's an mk2 of the pre, you might want to get a 108 right now, and keep the CTH as a preamp, until you can get the mk2 preamp, or score an mk1 on the cheap :)

Don't forget to get a Zeel cable, BTW. They're absolutely necessary to get the full benefit of the 108+18NS setup.


cheers,
alex
 

jasbirnandra

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Apr 3, 2012
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At some point, I had the CTH-8550, and also wanted to move to the separates. I bought them both, but I took delivery of the preamp first, so I had the chance to try the CTH as an amp only. I can tell you, for sure, the CTH is a fantastic amp on its own :) Once I got the 108, I noticed more refinement overall. Even though the 108 is not as powerful (on paper) as the CTH, I didn't notice any diminished dynamics, at least on the speakers I used back them (Dynaudio, Focal, Sonus faber, Magico).

Given that there's an mk2 of the pre, you might want to get a 108 right now, and keep the CTH as a preamp, until you can get the mk2 preamp, or score an mk1 on the cheap :)

Don't forget to get a Zeel cable, BTW. They're absolutely necessary to get the full benefit of the 108+18NS setup.


cheers,
alex

So you have experienced both the Int.and the Pre Power was the SQ improved in double for double the price you might have had to pay or was the INT more value for the price
 

asiufy

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It's always hard to put down in numbers/percentage the improvements we hear, right? But I have it very clear in my mind two things:

1. The CTH is the best integrated amp I've ever heard. At its current price ($25k), and for what's aboard, it's a hi-end bargain. It'll beat pre+power combos from other brands, at multiples of its price point.
2. The 108/18NS duo, with the Zeel cable, is still the best combination I've heard. The level of refinement is up there, and the phono stage is significantly improved over the one built-in on the CTH. With the mk2, that phono stage got significantly better, so I can only imagine the level this whole combo would be at, specially when analog setups are concerned.

I think "value for the price", by itself, the CTH is king. But at roughly $70k, the 18NS mk2+108 combo is extremely competitive with other gear. And then you factor in build quality, and that lovely new phono stage, the pre+power combo is not a bad deal, at all.

If a good phono stage is important to you (like, if you're in an-all analog setup), you'll do far better with the 18NS mk2 as your preamp+phono than with the CTH, no question about it. Even if you already have a reference phono stage, you can probably sell it to fund part of the darTZeel purchase, with no loss in sound quality in the end. Remember, there are phono stages out there that cost more than the full function 18NS mk2 cost, and if I had to guess, they won't be nearly as good!!


cheers,
alex
 

4music

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Apr 15, 2013
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How do one set up the 8550 as a power amp only? (maxing the volume is one way but in that way you are not bypassing the 8550 pre-amp)
Thanks
Tim
 

asiufy

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Hi Tim,

Plug your preamp (or your source with volume control) into one of the CTH's inputs (RCA or XLR). Go to the menu, select "3 Parameters", then "2 Settings". Find the input you plugged the preamp in (with up arrow, down arrow), then cycle through the options (right arrow) until you see "Input Bypass". That should be off, but if you switch it to "Bypass", the volume control/preamp section of the CTH will be bypassed.

Please double check the volume setting in your preamp/source, as the "Pleasure Control" of the darTZeel won't work anymore, on that input.

Hope this helps!


cheers,
alex
 

4music

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Apr 15, 2013
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Alex, thank you very much for the info. Very usefull. Will try it latter today!
Tim
 

asiufy

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No prob! If you haven't ventured in the menus, I suggest you also try boosting the input level at your chosen input. The CTH offers a range of -10dB to +10dB. Some sources seem to be prefer a little extra gain from the CTH...

Anyway, please give it a try and report back :D


cheers,
alex
 

4music

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Apr 15, 2013
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The input levels are already set to +10dB, as per the local dealer's suggestion. I've also tried the amplifier-only section of the 8550, with my Ypsilon preamp. The sound opened up significantly became more three dimensional and organic. However some of the Dartzeel sweetness and homogeneity was lost in the process. Trying to identify whether the PST will be a good partner with Dart 108.
 

asiufy

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If I may ask, what speakers are you using?

Even though the darTZeel stuff is very natural and organic, tubes generally will offer that bloom that no solid state can provide. *My opinion*, but more often than not, that bloomiess lend a certain sameness to the music, and gets boring after a while. Again, *my opinion*!

Can you try an 18NS on the 8550? That's what I used for a while, until I finally took delivery of the 108 :)


cheers,
alex
 

Phelonious Ponk

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Jun 30, 2010
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I will admit to knowing nothing about Dartzeel that I haven't read here, but if it is as good as reported, you're likely to get the greatest benefit from more power. Headroom is not something to underestimate.

And I must know, what is a "Pleasure Control?"

Tim
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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I will admit to knowing nothing about Dartzeel that I haven't read here, but if it is as good as reported, you're likely to get the greatest benefit from more power. Headroom is not something to underestimate.

And I must know, what is a "Pleasure Control?"

Tim

'pleasure control' is the volume knob....Herve' never takes himself too seriously.

pleasure.jpg
 

4music

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Apr 15, 2013
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If I may ask, what speakers are you using?

Even though the darTZeel stuff is very natural and organic, tubes generally will offer that bloom that no solid state can provide. *My opinion*, but more often than not, that bloomiess lend a certain sameness to the music, and gets boring after a while. Again, *my opinion*!

Can you try an 18NS on the 8550? That's what I used for a while, until I finally took delivery of the 108 :)


cheers,
alex

Alex,

My system is based on YG Carmel 2, with source being the Playback Designs MPS-5. My amplifiers are Ypsilon Aelius with Ypsilon PST Mk. II as pre. Going forward I have a plan to reduce the box count and the complexity.

Tried a new Dartzeel 8550 (now at approx 200h), which is a very nice match with the Carmel 2, however the well broken-in Ypsilon set continues to perform at least one notch up in sonic sophistication. Perhaps the 18NS & 108B will better the 8550 and be on par with the Ypsilon gear. My MPS-5 is also brand new at 130h, so I will reserve my conclusions till after 500h.

Tim
 

asiufy

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Alex,

My system is based on YG Carmel 2, with source being the Playback Designs MPS-5. My amplifiers are Ypsilon Aelius with Ypsilon PST Mk. II as pre. Going forward I have a plan to reduce the box count and the complexity.

Tried a new Dartzeel 8550 (now at approx 200h), which is a very nice match with the Carmel 2, however the well broken-in Ypsilon set continues to perform at least one notch up in sonic sophistication. Perhaps the 18NS & 108B will better the 8550 and be on par with the Ypsilon gear. My MPS-5 is also brand new at 130h, so I will reserve my conclusions till after 500h.

Tim

Fantastic setup, Tim! We have the Carmel 2s and the CTH in the store, and it's just lovely, punchy, dynamic... As I said, tubes tend to give that warm fuzzy pleasant sound. I haven't heard the Ypsilons enough times to form an opinion, so I can't say whether the 18NS+108 will be on par, though... What I do know is that your speakers will show every little change and nuance in your setup!

One thing that you can try is to hook your Playback to the RCA inputs of the darTZeel, and *not* the Zeel inputs. Please try that, if you haven't yet, and report back...

Also, make sure you're not using a thin-sounding cable on the darTZeel, like Nordost or Siltech, specially on the power cord. It prefers more neutral, full-bodied cables.


cheers,
alex
 

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