Amazing Documentary From Netflix

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
When you mention his lawyers Bob one of the things I remember was that Steve Avery gave up a $36M potential while sitting in jail on the other murder. There he settled with Manitowoc county for just over $400K. His civil rights lawyers got $150K IIRC and the balance of ~$250K went to his defense attorneys. His family's as well as he are simple people with low IQ's but they stood by him every day. They made his fiancée leave him lest she be put back in jail. They coerced a phoney confession from his simple minded nephew. How could anyone not feel for this family.

I suspect all of them had their run ins with the law and there are things I'm sure left out of this documentary. I'm sure Steves involvement with crime early on made them believe he was just a bad seed and they were going to get him no matter what. Don't you love those Wisconsin accents
 

treitz3

Super Moderator
Staff member
Dec 25, 2011
5,459
961
1,290
The tube lair in beautiful Rock Hill, SC
I'm about 1/2 way through this now and my bet is on one of those who would have had to pay out their part of that 36M dollar payout when the insurance companies for them stated that they would not be covered in this case. There is your motive IMO. People, even previously good people have been known to kill for less. I have my suspicions as to who it is at this point though I will reserve that suspect to my thoughts only until I have completed watching the documentary. Steve, like you I feel for that family.

Tom
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
When you mention his lawyers Bob one of the things I remember was that Steve Avery gave up a $36M potential while sitting in jail on the other murder. There he settled with Manitowoc county for just over $400K. His civil rights lawyers got $150K IIRC and the balance of ~$250K went to his defense attorneys. His family's as well as he are simple people with low IQ's but they stood by him every day. They made his fiancée leave him lest she be put back in jail. They coerced a phoney confession from his simple minded nephew. How could anyone not feel for this family.

I suspect all of them had their run ins with the law and there are things I'm sure left out of this documentary. I'm sure Steves involvement with crime early on made them believe he was just a bad seed and they were going to get him no matter what. Don't you love those Wisconsin accents

Two days after Steven's lawyers deposited the official lawsuit for $36 million, it changed the entire course of life in Manitowoc County, and Steven was accused again for a second time, of rape and murder. The Sheriff, and all his associates worked real hard on framing Steven so that they can save their face, and their town.
Just imagine...being bankrupted and losing your reputation because of a low IQ individual working in a car scrapyard. No way that they could allow that to happen.

And true, @ the end he settled for $400,000 and he hired these two "very good" and sympathetic lawyers (defense attorneys).

His fiancee, she was constantly stalked by the police, and they nailed her for impaired driving and she spent the maximum time in jail.
Brief, anything that the police could find, any little mistake from his family...they'll slap them right away.

Sure, nobody's perfect Steve, and neither his family...but they are still decent folks with a good heart and who work hard.
And that cat thing is not very nice for sure, but neither what all the police department did.

Making a Murderer...that's exactly the point; they did a very sloppy job back in 1985, then eight years later when Sgt. Colborn received that phone call about the real rapist and murderer, and he told his Lt. Lenk. They did nothing to investigate! Steven would have been free, and wouldn't have to rot in jail for another ten years.

There is no doubt that the people of the police department of that County are bad workers not doing their jobs.

I ended up to love and appreciate Steven's father and mother, and also Brendan's mother. They are very simple people...but good people.
Nobody is perfect, not me, not you, nobody. ...Sorry Steve, I don't mean that in a bad way...just in a realistic way...we are good people, and Amir is good sh!t too, some of the best, but perfect he ain't either. :b

Now I am super happy to see that woman lawyer coming up. She really looks professional and no fooling around with her...her face and entire posture I can sense she's the real deal.
And this case is in dire needs of the real deal.

Wisconsin's is close to the Canadian border, I was born in Quebec, near Montreal, and lived there for twenty years. My Indian ancestors were living in the Appalachian mountains...touching parts of the USA and Canada. We all are North Americans, and no matter the type of work we do in life, we have some rights that were earned by our predecessors. And those rights they apply equally to us all...fair treatment and justice.

Yes, money and power (social status) have the definitive advantage. But today in the world of internet it is changing; everyone's carrying a video camera (cell phone), and the police is no better than the people they suppose to help and protect. Their uniform means nothing when they start abusing their power. Many cops shouldn't be cops. It's an important job for important and serious and responsible people. ...Same with moderators.

* $36 millions, I assume, was for eighteen years in jail...$2 million per year for false incarceration. ...Very fair in my book. And next time they want to send an innocent person to jail they'll think twice about it...you know what I'm saying.

I talked to some of my neighbors about it...they've read about it a little...and then they asked me if I watched that movie...'About Time'.
So, if you aren't aware of it...I agree with you...you cannot feel as involved as the people who are. And me I keep following it because every single day there's more to it...and my interest is @ maximum. Because this is real life, it's in our country, it's our people, it's all around us and everywhere. It's what we are all fighting for @ the end, true justice in our court of law system. Everything is related...we cannot close our eyes and keep on living like nothing happened, because if we do we are not real. That's my view Steve.
 
Last edited:

treitz3

Super Moderator
Staff member
Dec 25, 2011
5,459
961
1,290
The tube lair in beautiful Rock Hill, SC
Just imagine...being bankrupted and losing your reputation because of a low IQ individual working in a car scrapyard. No way that they could allow that to happen.
Good morning to you Bob. While I know what it is you are saying (I do), I must point out that this is not the case. They were under the threat of bankruptcy because of what they did before to that low IQ individual working in a scrap yard.

Tom
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
Good morning to you Bob. While I know what it is you are saying (I do), I must point out that this is not the case.
They were under the threat of bankruptcy because of what they did before to that low IQ individual working in a scrap yard.

Tom

You got what I was saying; that's the main thing. It's called discrimination, and deep hatred. All those bad people took advantage of Steven and his family...of their weaknesses, they did the most despicable things on this earth. Sure they knew that they would go bankrupt ($36 million) but all their bad actions will also come to the surface and all their life's reputation forever gone. But it's already gone...we all saw what they did; now it's up to Kathleen (Chicago high profile lawyer) to restore Steven's and Brendan's back their freedom.

It is extremely sad this entire affair, and it reflects the true reality of our society...everywhere. The police, the governor, the judge, the prosecutor, the detectives, sergeants, lieutenant, all are crooked, corrupted and bad to the bone. What they did, how they did it, how they think, how they judged, how they lied, how they manipulated, how the framed, how everything bad they did...will lead eventually to their own demise. The money would bankrupt them, the reputation would forever mark them, and that accumulated hatred started a long time ago with that female police officer. Then everything after that just kept piling up to the point where we are now; Steven with 26 years in jail and Brendan's life in shackles.

The IQs of both Steven and Brendan was taking advantage of by many people; the detectives, Lenk, the polygraph guy, the cops, everyone took advantage of them, and they could not conceive that Steven after his release (18 years in jail), could sue them for $36 million...that didn't fit well with their town, with their brain, and with all their mentality.
Steven's family was taken advantage of, they were ridiculed, they were totally disrespected. The police started it all...

Again you understood the meaning of my words...and that's the essence. That's the human condition, the reality of our society. ...The very low life of the most atrocious attitude of man.

The poor and underprivileged (mentally handicapped) are taking advantage of by the people in power; police officers, prosecutors, ...the justice system in uniform with a badge.
 

treitz3

Super Moderator
Staff member
Dec 25, 2011
5,459
961
1,290
The tube lair in beautiful Rock Hill, SC
Oh, I didn't not understand Bob. I just wanted to clarify. The way you had stated it, they were gonna lose everything because of a low IQ individual working in a scrapyard. You and I both know that wasn't the case. They did it to themselves and I still can't fathom that they wanted to do it all over again a second time to cover their actions from the first time. That is almost unbelievable, especially coming from people who have taken an oath to protect and serve.

Tom
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
Oh, I didn't not understand Bob. I just wanted to clarify. The way you had stated it, they were gonna lose everything because of a low IQ individual working in a scrapyard. You and I both know that wasn't the case. They did it to themselves and I still can't fathom that they wanted to do it all over again a second time to cover their actions from the first time. That is almost unbelievable, especially coming from people who have taken an oath to protect and serve.

Tom

Yes, way of speech...making a point that exists in the brain of many people in this world...I truly believe that. When people can do such things as that they got to have brain that are so corrupted that anything low goes...even to the point of the human's superiority complex. ...I'm the law...you are a nobody without any brain, and you cannot touch me.

That's the way some people's brain work. ...Many people.

Oath? What oath...the oath of who can tell the best and most lies, that's their oath.
 

treitz3

Super Moderator
Staff member
Dec 25, 2011
5,459
961
1,290
The tube lair in beautiful Rock Hill, SC
Here is the one they took;

On my honor,
I will never betray my badge,
my integrity, my character,
or the public trust.
I will always have
the courage to hold myself
and others accountable for our actions.
I will always uphold the constitution
my community and the agency I serve.


It is quite obvious IMO based upon what has been presented thus far that some have betrayed this oath in despicable ways.

Tom
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
How about Brendans first attorney Len who was not only incompetent but sold out his client to the prosecution and was never there when they interrogated Brendan

Also how despicable as Lens investigator who made Brendan sign a confession while all the time he said he didn't do it


Also how about his comments about the family that they need to be stopped because they are low IQ and a bad breed
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
Here is the one they took;

On my honor,
I will never betray my badge,
my integrity, my character,
or the public trust.
I will always have
the courage to hold myself
and others accountable for our actions.
I will always uphold the constitution
my community and the agency I serve.


It is quite obvious IMO based upon what has been presented thus far that some have betrayed this oath in despicable ways.

Tom

They lost what is one of the most important values of men and women towards men and women: Honor.
 

treitz3

Super Moderator
Staff member
Dec 25, 2011
5,459
961
1,290
The tube lair in beautiful Rock Hill, SC
How about Brendans first attorney Len who was not only incompetent but sold out his client to the prosecution and was never there when they interrogated Brendan.
That entire process was unbelievable to watch. I am glad, even though he didn't do this at first, the judge in that case allowed Brendan to get another attorney once he found this out. I can see no reason why a lawyer would not want to be there for that, especially in this man's case given his IQ and obvious non-understanding of the situation surrounding him. If you remember, the only thing he was interested in was turning in a paper that was due at school later that afternoon. He had no idea he was facing not ever having his freedom again, none.

Agreed, Bob. ;)

Tom
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
How about Brendans first attorney Len who was not only incompetent but sold out his client to the prosecution and was never there when they interrogated Brendan

Also how despicable as Lens investigator who made Brendan sign a confession while all the time he said he didn't do it

Also how about his comments about the family that they need to be stopped because they are low IQ and a bad breed

Oh that guy was a total joke! Simply unbelievable that he wanted a confession of guilt instead of defending his client like what you're supposed to do when you are a lawyer.

Steve, so many people in this documentary; we saw as the lowest of the lowest of the human race.
...And right here in our own backyard; continent, America, USA, Wisconsin, Manitowoc County...all the corrupted people involved in this sordid(est) affair of them all...one of them affairs for sure.

Are those people for real or was it only a science fiction movie we just saw! ...Incredible! ...The documentary of the century. And the two very very nice and young ladies who did that documentary did a fantastic and amazing job. Kudos to them both for showing us all we needed to see.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Bob

how is the new attorney getting involved when The Innocence Project couldn't help either of them

The only way I can see it is if new evidence is discovered

The only retribution so far was that A--hole special prosecutor Ken Kratz who became a nobody after charged with sexual harassment and faded into the shadows and became a nobody. At least he has his freedom unlike Steve and Brendan
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
Bob

how is the new attorney getting involved when The Innocence Project couldn't help either of them

The only way I can see it is if new evidence is discovered

The only retribution so far was that A--hole special prosecutor Ken Kratz who became a nobody after charged with sexual harassment and faded into the shadows and became a nobody. At least he has his freedom unlike Steve and Brendan

Good question Steve, because @ the beginning Dean Strang was supposed to come back.

And then Kathleen Zellner will be teaming up with a young female lawyer from The Innocence Project...in view of new evidence.
It's an all female team this time around (two women versus two men from prior). Women are more capable I think in corrupted cases like this...much more effective because they represent beauty and the family foundation...giving life, giving back the freedom to wrongfully accused victims...just a wild guess Steve.

It's redemption time, including for the Innocence Project because we have to count on them to save innocent victims. It is very well orchestrated and I fully approve.
But yes, in the news they said: "In view of new evidence, The Innocence Project will team up/assist with Zellner from the Chicago firm".

So you are right with your above comment.
 
Last edited:

Asamel

Well-Known Member
Jan 22, 2012
578
1
263
Philly
How is it that the most important evidence is just sitting waiting to be found but there is no evidence of blood anywhere in the house or garage?
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
How is it that the most important evidence is just sitting waiting to be found but there is no evidence of blood anywhere in the house or garage?

1. That new evidence we'll find out eventually; no use to give any advance to the prosecution team @ this very important time in Steven's and Brendan's life.

2. The police didn't have any blood to spread all over Steven's bed and bedroom and garage. I guess they run out of ideas @ one point, after being in Avery's property for nine days while the Avery family were kicked out so fast that Dolores, Steven's mom, was not allow to retrieve her medication pills from the kitchen's table...and nobody would bring it to her.
They even stole her bed sheets from her bed! ...But good thing that she had another brand new set.

_____________

Here's a pic of Dolores, Steven's mom (an angel if you ask me):

Dolores Avery...Steven's mother.jpg
 

RayDunzl

New Member
Jun 26, 2014
289
2
0
Tampa
Who killed the girl?
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
24,305
1,323
435
Vancouver Island, B.C. Canada
Who killed the girl?

The all almighty main menu key question.

Find the real killer(s) with real evidence to support and you get yourself a new trial.

* Steven himself mentioned few suspects before, in one of those links that I posted, and in court his two lawyers were not allowed to bring other suspects!

But I suspect now that in view of new evidence we just might find her true killer(s).
Personally I don't know, because I wasn't there, and I don't know the new evidence.
And my suspicion has no more merit than a snowflake falling inside a bottle of whiskey in the middle of winter outside sitting on my deck and looking towards the ocean to see if I can catch a whale or two. ...Or working for the police department of Manitowoc County.

? http://hollywoodlife.com/2016/01/03/making-a-murderer-steven-avery-innocent-theories-spoilers/
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing