Good Lord. What an appalling criminal justice system in Wisconsin. That was a horrific documentary. I'm truly shocked. And I'm a barrister. I'm not easily shocked.
Amazing Documentary From Netflix
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Good Lord. What an appalling criminal justice system in Wisconsin. That was a horrific documentary. I'm truly shocked. And I'm a barrister. I'm not easily shocked.
Did you watch the entire 10 episodes Andrew. It's more than shocking. BTW I thought Steve Avery's defense lawyers were superb
How To Restore Order - Very latest:
? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-praises-son-s-new-Chicago-based-lawyer.html
* And just before the very latest from above: http://www.thewrap.com/steven-avery...ew-evidence-since-making-a-murderer-premiere/
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I can see where this is going ... ... and it's going to be big news for a lot of people. ...In particular to our criminal justice system and some of them people who are part of it...prosecutors, lawyers, cops, detectives, judges, ...the entire system.
This ain't over...and I was outraged before...and I really wanted to do something about it...something right.
? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-praises-son-s-new-Chicago-based-lawyer.html
* And just before the very latest from above: http://www.thewrap.com/steven-avery...ew-evidence-since-making-a-murderer-premiere/
____________
I can see where this is going ... ... and it's going to be big news for a lot of people. ...In particular to our criminal justice system and some of them people who are part of it...prosecutors, lawyers, cops, detectives, judges, ...the entire system.
This ain't over...and I was outraged before...and I really wanted to do something about it...something right.
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Nice folks, fair/honest people...but not fully equipped...yet. A case like this takes more than four hundred thousand grands...IMO.
They didn't have the right backers...the true pros behind them to seek real justice. Timing wasn't on their side, and the prosecution was very fast and they had backers...with enough "bad deeds" to corrupt a lot of people, and they were acting so "out-of-bound" that we could easily see through all the mistakes/lies/coercion/tainting/planting evidence...all they made. You cannot lie...a mass group of people like that...the truth can't be hidden, and it was a time bomb...for something more to come. ...Now it's coming.
Yes, these two young lawyers were good...but missing all the other resources necessary...including more money for a bigger team. IMO
...And more time was needed too, for serious research and investigation and testing. ...Coming right up now.
I've read about it...and there are few more (documentaries) of that genre. I will explore them...next. ... Serial ...
<<<>>> The State of our Criminal Justice System ... The State of the Affairs ... & The State of All Other Things, including High End Audio. ...All for the Best.
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Yes, I did. Extraordinary. It goes well beyond wilful blindness.
I agree - both the defence attorneys of Stephen were excellent. Both were obviously disgusted by their own process. As for the worm that "defended" young Brendon, until he was finally dismissed, he may as well have been on the prosecution payroll.
I cannot understand how any of Brendon's "confessions" were deemed admissible. Here they would have never have been allowed in. Indeed the officers would have been charged wth perverting the course of justice.
Occasionally here we get the odd miscarriage of justice - usually as a result of the police & prosecution trying too hard to convict an individual and tampering with evidence - but we have a very robust Court of Appeal (Criminal) and and even more robust High Court above them. Such convictions - and they are far and few between (Gordon Woods was the last one here) are remedied fairly quickly, and with great certainty.
What I find amazing is the seeming importance of political will in your judicial process (ours is completely separate) and secondly the apparent willingness to do whatever it takes to ratify an incarceration and thereby validate the system , howsoever wrongly that verdict has been reached and the resultant incarceration made.
Better nine guilty men walk free than one innocent man is wrongly convicted. It seems in the USA that better nine innocent men remain in jail, than one innocent man shows the system was corrupted and fallible.
If you haven't watched it already, there is an excellent 3 part BBC production called "The Murder Detectives" which follows the real life investigation of a murder in the UK. That shows clearly how our (as in Commonwealth) system works, from the ground level up, and how when the Police like someone for a murder, they often try and fit the facts to the suspect rather than the other way around. And the inbuilt checks and balances that prevent injustices from occurring.
There is no question in my mind that young Brendan Avery was coerced into giving the testimony he did - it is apparent the investigating detectives were dealing with a sub normal child that needed protection not exploitation (how you can interview a 16 year old as an adult is beyond me) and secondly that Stephan Avery was convicted in large measure on that testimony and circumstantial evidence that was almost certainty planted, or at the very least was inadmissible given the failure to show it was found without tampering.
Gosh. I feel a great injustice has been done to the Avery family. There are a number of police prosecutors and even the trial judge that have some serious questions to answer, and probable (no, certain) criminal behaviour to account for.
I don't know what happened to that poor women, but I know Brendon and Steven Avery had nothing to do with it.
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Bob
I felt the biggest failing here was the judiciary. It was obvious to me at least that the Bench was heavily biased toward the prosecution case. I don't think it mattered what the defence team did, or how much money was thrown at it, the Avery's were being convicted come hell or high water.
As I say - here the entire case even if brought (and there is doubt that would have happened) would have been summarily dismissed by a Judge and the prosecutors themselves charged for perverting the course of justice.
Bob
Have you even seen the documentary? You are making blanket statements that are completely wrong. His lawyers were excellent. I strongly suggest you watch it rather than quoting things that you don't know.
Have you even seen the documentary? You are making blanket statements that are completely wrong. His lawyers were excellent. I strongly suggest you watch it rather than quoting things that you don't know.
I totally agree Andrew, and that's why now that big shot lawyer (pro woman lawyer) is coming to town to clean this entire mess.
The two lawyers for Steven are very very likable people, and they are doing their job with full integrity...they seem to be the only two in the room with their sanity intact and with real life values and respect of our court system. It's just too sad that they couldn't fight a losing battle from the get go with all the corruption from the prosecution team. Totally outrageous and can you just imagine if we wouldn't have been made aware of all of this! ...Just look @ that guy, Kratz, and Lenk too, plus the two detectives who interrogated Brendan...just unreal man! ...And Kratz is making money now going to all those medias and telling them more bull dog horse crap!
He is the price with his $350,000 house for these young girls! Lol, what a total wacko living in his own screwed up bubble! ...Just unbelievable, but truly true.
You just cannot trust anyone of them, and Kratz and Lenk the first ones. Lenk was interfering with everything! No log in just log out. These people are simply some of the biggest crooks on earth, there is no two ways about it.
And of course that this case should have been dismissed if it would have been a fair process with a non-corrupted judge.
And two members of the jury were working for the police department of Manitowoc County! This ain't over man, there was some bad stuff happening in that jury room while they were deliberating...you'll see more coming up.
The judge in this case here appears to me like a total idiot! Completely manipulated by a corrupt prosecution team. Let's get rid of them all, once and for all...they are the one who should be facing justice and get what they truly deserve...the electric chair? ...Maybe not that radical...but @ least in jail for a very long time among all the rapists and killers.
How's that for fair justice.
As a matter of fact I did Steve. The two very nice lawyers were very good...but I wouldn't say excellent because they should have anticipated some and be more prepared, in my very honest and open opinion. I truly like them both, best guys to have on your side. It's just that they didn't have all the tools to throw out that case all together from that court...because they were facing challenges bigger than what they were expecting.
For me, excellence in law is to be fully prepared for all unexpected circumstances and always have a backup plan, they did not.
Don't be harsh for my opinion; I love these two guys. Please respect my opinion like I respect yours Steve; I'm not a child, I'm a man with brain.
I am sharing what I think; I think they were very good, you think they were excellent. It's all good Steve. It's in the way you come up with...
This is an excellent subject, and it touches a lot of people deep down. It's a good discussion, and we all have our own variation of opinion using our own words with explanations.
* Blanket statements that are completely wrong, no. ...And your strong suggestion I appreciate...but it's already done...and I only know what has been written and shown (the complete saga so far...and it's not over).
P.S. The content of my posts, my opinion; they are important, they are the essence, and to say that I'm making blanket statements that are completely wrong is a personal judgement that I would suggest that you put more careful attention before you say. ...In a friendly and respectable manner.
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Good. I'm glad you did. More people need to and become vocal as you have. I thought Steve Avery's civil rights attorneys and defense attorneys were excellent.
Of course I'm vocal; this case is the apotheosis of clear injustice and total corruption...the things I fought all my life against. ...And still today.
And we both agree with Steven's two lawyers; it's just that we use different words to describe..."excellent" from you, and "very good" from me.
I don't need to be 100% with "excellent", because I'm me (extremely important to be me). I have my own opinion. That's all.
what I don't understand about the law is that Pres Obama has already stated that he has no jurisdiction in the case. Why can't he just pardon him upon his end of term in office as most presidents do
This is something that I also was wondering about. How much do they know about this case? ...I think we're about to find out more now...finally.
So the president did ok; wait to find out more. And now that woman lawyer (big shot) is coming up to get to the heart of the truth.
What's coming up, I think, is going to be very captivating.
So the president did ok; wait to find out more. And now that woman lawyer (big shot) is coming up to get to the heart of the truth.
What's coming up, I think, is going to be very captivating.
As I understand it, the President has power to pardon federally and the Governor in State matters. The Governor has refused to watch the documentary and says "appeal your conviction if you are unhappy". Extraordinary.
Just unbelievable!
* And you are abso!utely right Andrew; it is a State affair, and not a Federal one. ...So "No can do" from the president Obama.
I get anxiety from thinking about bad police interactions, where an innocent person (me) just has everything go all wrong on them... I'm not sure I can watch that!
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