Chinese DAC shames a few heavy hitters

Blizzard

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Thought leader is not necessarily market leader.

Yes market leaders. As I said they have over 50% of the DAC market. And now they have entered the mobile device market. The also recently acquired all of Wolfson's IP.
 

wisnon

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Yes I understand this. The only problem I have with the coloration is sometimes I want to hear the music as it was recorded. So far from all of the gain stages I've heard in my life, 100% discrete class A transistor based produce a sound that not measures awesome, but is also smooth and silky on the ears. Superior dynamics as well.

I guess you have not heard enough then!

Too much dogma here. Based on the many mega systems I have been priviliged to listen to, I don't subscribe to your absolutes one iota. Many, many ways to skin a cat.
Sorry.
 

wisnon

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Yes market leaders. As I said they have over 50% of the DAC market. And now they have entered the mobile device market. The also recently acquired all of Wolfson's IP.

The title of foremost expert applies to thought leadership, not market leadership. They can be both, but the first comes the thought, the LOGOS.
 

Blizzard

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Simple and basic are the same? Do you understand how much harder it is to engineer out complexity without a system breakdown?
I have spoken to him at length…I guess I know more about this than you do. Carry on.

Everyone has their own philosophy on design. There's no right or wrong. But one thing I have noticed with the lampi products is we never see any measurement data. Why can't he provide measurement data, when the Chinese can with low cost products like this?
 

bonzo75

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Wisnon don't think you have been around the last few days. Blizzard has done the forum to death. Best not to debate with him. He gets on multiple threads trolling
 

wisnon

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Yup, that's why I use Broski's buffer, which is a more complex circuit... it has very little distortion and measures exceptionally well but still adds a lot of the positive attributes of tube gear. You should try his Aikido circuit sometime, it may displace your preference for transistors.

As I said, many ways to skin a cat!

BTW, to me, my GG does NOT sound coloured.
 

Blizzard

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I guess you have not heard enough then!

Too much dogma here. Based on the many mega systems I have been priviliged to listen to, I don't subscribe to your absolutes one iota. Many, many ways to skin a cat.
Sorry.

I prefer to base experience on the actual circuits, rather than finished products. You get a much clearer picture of what's actually going on, and why things are this way. There's way to many variables at play with complete systems to judge what's causing what. It could even be DSP in the FPGA. I don't subscribe to religious beliefs in audio, everything is how it is for a reason.
 

Blizzard

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Yup, that's why I use Broski's buffer, which is a more complex circuit... it has very little distortion and measures exceptionally well but still adds a lot of the positive attributes of tube gear. You should try his Aikido circuit sometime, it may displace your preference for transistors.

I would like to hear it. Although I'm a firm believe that these coloration's can be added in the digital domain.
 

wisnon

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I would like to hear it. Although I'm a firm believe that these coloration's can be added in the digital domain.

I can agree here, BUT it is much , much harder than you let on and I dont think we are there yet….maybe even years away.
 

Blizzard

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I can agree here, BUT it is much , much harder than you let on and I dont think we are there yet….maybe even years away.

Maybe try HQplayer. The AKM AK4490's "velvet sound" filters do a fantastic job as well. And as you have said repeatedly, bughead, why do you think it sounds so good? All examples of coloration's introduced in the digital domain.
 

DaveC

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I would like to hear it. Although I'm a firm believe that these coloration's can be added in the digital domain.

It might be possible, but part of the advantage of the Aikido is it's simplicity. Sure, it's more complicated vs a single triode but the signal path isn't much different and it's much less complex vs most SS designs. This results in hearing more of the music in a better way, since the circuit is so simple you lose less detail... you need to try it to really see what I'm saying. It's not just about pleasant colorations, it's about preserving the music by using fewer parts and making sure what parts are used are the highest quality. This is the approach lampi uses and the advantages are far more than some pleasant distortions. This part of a tube circuits performance can't be recreated digitally, it can only happen by being very careful with the signal and not sending it through too many parts.
 

Blizzard

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It might be possible, but part of the advantage of the Aikido is it's simplicity. Sure, it's more complicated vs a single triode but the signal path isn't much different and it's much less complex vs most SS designs. This results in hearing more of the music in a better way, since the circuit is so simple you lose less detail... you need to try it to really see what I'm saying. It's not just about pleasant colorations, it's about preserving the music by using fewer parts and making sure what parts are used are the highest quality. This is the approach lampi uses and the advantages are far more than some pleasant distortions. This part of a tube circuits performance can't be recreated digitally, it can only happen by being very careful with the signal and not sending it through too many parts.

I would love to compare with a simple transistor based design like this:

http://www.sonicimagerylabs.com/products/Model992DiscreteOpAmp-Ticha.html
 

FrantzM

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It might be possible, but part of the advantage of the Aikido is it's simplicity. Sure, it's more complicated vs a single triode but the signal path isn't much different and it's much less complex vs most SS designs. This results in hearing more of the music in a better way, since the circuit is so simple you lose less detail... you need to try it to really see what I'm saying. It's not just about pleasant colorations, it's about preserving the music by using fewer parts and making sure what parts are used are the highest quality. This is the approach lampi uses and the advantages are far more than some pleasant distortions. This part of a tube circuits performance can't be recreated digitally, it can only happen by being very careful with the signal and not sending it through too many parts.

Dave

I would not bet against digital. In a short while we are discussing abut a $800 DAC as a challenger. I have the Auralic Vega and will acquire this little thing.. Will report then. I do not subscribe to the notion of too many parts makes the sound worse.. The circuit negate your assertion.
 

Blizzard

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Wisnon don't think you have been around the last few days. Blizzard has done the forum to death. Best not to debate with him. He gets on multiple threads trolling

even though you are trolling in my subforum now, don't worry I won't cry. That would be wayyyyy too analog of a thing for me to do :)
 

DaveC

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Yes I have. I was going to actually bring it up. I'm thinking combined with HQplayer/NAA it would be outstanding.

The 501 kinda sucked. Maybe the 503 is better...
 

Blizzard

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I liked what I saw but I did not see anything about IMD at say 3Vrms output or any other output for that matter. Not showing IMD at least the old school test for it is not honest IMO, If IMD stood up as well as simple THD+N then they would get my interest. IMD is much more telling in analog as we all know.

Also, no spectrum plots either......this is telling as well. These guys need to show what they really have.

The Akido will swing a lot of voltage of course, and that's one of its strong points, as well as a pretty nice distortion spectrum.

The OP Chinese unit looks interesting.

The 600 ohm spec is the standard one for an op-amp like this. This thing is a powerhouse, it can sink or source 150ma with only 0.0005% THD+N.
 

nc42acc

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I have listened to the Schiit Bifrost with the AK4490 DAC chip, very lifeless and unimpressed. I know it is not all about the actual converter chips.

Looks like the price for this has dropped from $1,700 to $1000 or so which makes it a more direct competitor to the Chinese one in this thread.
 

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