Chinese DAC shames a few heavy hitters

Blizzard

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Sep 30, 2015
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I guess I will be left alone in here with Mike. He hasn't read that book "How to Make New Friends"

I hate that book. I find honesty might not get as much volume, but it gets better quality. The world population is up to 7.4 billion people now. So even if only 0.1% want to be my friend, that's still 7.4 million friends. That's enough for me :)
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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I guess I will be left alone in here with Mike. He hasn't read that book "How to Make New Friends"

He also hasn't heard gear or music
 

Lee

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Feb 3, 2011
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This is what I hear with the X20 compared to the Vega and Yggydrasil, both great DACs in their own market share. I would like someone with a DAC in the SOTA category to hear the X20. I am just saying the X20 has changed my listening habits in terms of analog or digital. And I really like Chinese food too, maybe just Asian since I can include Thai. Chill out guys this is suppose to be fun.


Hopefully someone in Atlanta will have an X20 and I can grab a listen. And yes I am still having fun! :)
 

Blizzard

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Your words not mine.

I have actually heard several Dacs of all price ranges and nothing so far has displaced the GG as my favorite, not worried in the least about that. Lukasz is damn good in analog…you should hear his amps.

You said this guy is a DIGITAL expert and we speak of analog output and no, digital expert does not necessarily translate to analog oputput stage expert…. that much should be clear. Of course, its also possible that he is.

I'm not saying that Lukasz is poor at analog, but you shouldn't assume someone who you don't know isn't qualified to build an analog design. Especially since it's one of the most respected engineers in the audio industry today. He could build circuits like Lukasz builds with his eyes shut if he wanted to :) they are very basic circuits, and most of what his DAC's are built from is 3rd party modules slapped together. Resonessence labs builds every single aspect of their DAC's in house. Even the USB interface in developed in house. All of the circuits are developed in house. And Dustin does the complete designs 100% his self.
 

Blizzard

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Lee

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Your words not mine.

I have actually heard several Dacs of all price ranges and nothing so far has displaced the GG as my favorite, not worried in the least about that. Lukasz is damn good in analog…you should hear his amps.

You said this guy is a DIGITAL expert and we speak of analog output and no, digital expert does not necessarily translate to analog oputput stage expert…. that much should be clear. Of course, its also possible that he is.

I was totally knocked out by Bruce Brown's Golden Gate at RMAF and it made for some great photos too. I think your point is spot on. DACs are especially hard to do well since you need to be good at the digital section and the analog output section. Few designers travel well between both in my experience.
 

Blizzard

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Vast majority of our members arrive at threads by using "New Posts." So no matter where the thread is, it gets read. I am certainly here and will be reporting on this DAC post CES.

Alternatively we could move Mike's forum under the Digital/DAC main forum instead of member area.

I would prefer to keep it where it is. I don't just discuss digital. It's just what I've been discussing most of lately because I'm working on the digital end of my gear ATM. It's also the fastest moving sector in audio.
 

nc42acc

Member Sponsor
Nov 10, 2015
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Ask Dustin if he knows about the Gustard X20. There was suppose to have been a collaboration with ESS and Gustard on the X20 design. Inquiring minds would like to know.

I'm not saying that Lukasz is poor at analog, but you shouldn't assume someone who you don't know isn't qualified to build an analog design. Especially since it's one of the most respected engineers in the audio industry today. He could build circuits like Lukasz builds with his eyes shut if he wanted to :) they are very basic circuits, and most of what his DAC's are built from is 3rd party modules slapped together. Resonessence labs builds every single aspect of their DAC's in house. Even the USB interface in developed in house. All of the circuits are developed in house. And Dustin does the complete designs 100% his self.
 

wisnon

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Dec 12, 2011
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I'm not saying that Lukasz is poor at analog, but you shouldn't assume someone who you don't know isn't qualified to build an analog design. Especially since it's one of the most respected engineers in the audio industry today. He could build circuits like Lukasz builds with his eyes shut if he wanted to :) they are very basic circuits, and most of what his DAC's are built from is 3rd party modules slapped together. Resonessence labs builds every single aspect of their DAC's in house. Even the USB interface in developed in house. All of the circuits are developed in house. And Dustin does the complete designs 100% his self.
I never said that.
You said he was the world's foremost digital designer (debatable) and I replied "what does that have to do with analog oputput design"? You are a bright guy, so no excuse for your horrific misinterpretation.

Luaksz has basic tube circuits??? Hahahahahahahaha.
 

Blizzard

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Ask Dustin if he knows about the Gustard X20. There was suppose to have been a collaboration with ESS and Gustard on the X20 design. Inquiring minds would like to know.

I don't know, I only know what you told me about him lending a hand with the design. But then I noticed the hybrid output stage and remembered him telling me about a design he was working on.
 

wisnon

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Dec 12, 2011
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Another personal comment from analog corner that's against the TOS.

LoL

But is it true?
BTW, I think Bonzo is still digital only. He has contemplated a TT purchase, but I dont think he has acted on that yet.
 

Blizzard

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Sep 30, 2015
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I never said that.
You said he was the world's foremost digital designer (debatable) and I replied "what does that have to do with analog oputput design"? You are a bright guy, so no excuse for your horrific misinterpretation.

Luaksz has basic tube circuits??? Hahahahahahahaha.

Well when over 50% of the DAC market is using your chips, when we have over a dozen major DAC chip manufacturers in the industry, I would say you're the leader.

Hey even Lukasz his self talks about how basic his circuits are. All you have to do is look at them to see it.
 

Blizzard

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Sep 30, 2015
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LoL

But is it true?
BTW, I think Bonzo is still digital only. He has contemplated a TT purchase, but I dont think he has acted on that yet.

It won't be long before Bonzo get's a tattoo on one arm saying 100% digital, and 100% class D on the other :)
 
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DaveC

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Nov 16, 2014
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Hey even Lukasz his self talks about how basic his circuits are. All you have to do is look at them to see it.

That's the key to good sounding (tube) circuits. They are almost too simple imo (the buffer I use in my pre is a good bit more complex) but the tube coloration is part of the sound, which is awesome imo.
 

Blizzard

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Sep 30, 2015
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That's the key to good sounding (tube) circuits. They are almost too simple imo (the buffer I use in my pre is a good bit more complex) but the tube coloration is part of the sound, which is awesome imo.

Yes I understand this. The only problem I have with the coloration is sometimes I want to hear the music as it was recorded. So far from all of the gain stages I've heard in my life, 100% discrete class A transistor based produce a sound that not measures awesome, but is also smooth and silky on the ears. Superior dynamics as well.
 

DaveC

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Guys I have hesitated to post about this DAC due to the possibility of a barrage of flames. I read about the Gustard X20U on the Head Fi forums and was hearing really good feedback. I am the curious type so at only around $800.00 I was game. At the time when the X20 arrived all I had was a Line Magnetic LM-500ca and Schiit Bifrost multibit. No contest. Then I picked up an Auralic Vega and a Schiit Yggydrasil, both great in their own right. The difference with the X20 is the inner detail retrieval and soundstage. Inserting the X20 widens my soundstage by about 2 feet on each side and about 3 feet higher, in a realistic sense not exaggerated. The depth is amazing, can render front stage to back stage amazingly. Listening to the Opus 3 Showcase 2 in DSD 128 is stunning. It is so good as a vinyl diehard it has kept me planted in my seat with the Aurender iPad app not wanting me to spin vinyl. It might not float your boat but to me it has been an eye opening experience.

Wow, not surprised high performing DACs are starting to become available at reasonable prices though... I've had the Auralic Vega here, if the Gustard is noticeably better that's a great accomplishment! I have a Sony HAP, which is pretty close to the Vega and doesn't require a computer/streamer.... I've been thinking if I can get better results for about the same money and have the Roon interface it would be worth it.

Also, ELAC is working on a Roon based streamer which will probably be affordable and very high performing. Should be interesting to see how they have implemented it vs Blizzard's solution...
 

wisnon

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Dec 12, 2011
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Well when over 50% of the DAC market is using your chips, when we have over a dozen major DAC chip manufacturers in the industry, I would say you're the leader.

Hey even Lukasz his self talks about how basic his circuits are. All you have to do is look at them to see it.
Simple and basic are the same? Do you understand how much harder it is to engineer out complexity without a system breakdown?
I have spoken to him at length…I guess I know more about this than you do. Carry on.
 

wisnon

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Dec 12, 2011
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Well when over 50% of the DAC market is using your chips, when we have over a dozen major DAC chip manufacturers in the industry, I would say you're the leader.

Hey even Lukasz his self talks about how basic his circuits are. All you have to do is look at them to see it.

Thought leader is not necessarily market leader.
 

DaveC

Industry Expert
Nov 16, 2014
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Yes I understand this. The only problem I have with the coloration is sometimes I want to hear the music as it was recorded. So far from all of the gain stages I've heard in my life, 100% discrete class A transistor based produce a sound that not measures awesome, but is also smooth and silky on the ears. Superior dynamics as well.

Yup, that's why I use Broski's buffer, which is a more complex circuit... it has very little distortion and measures exceptionally well but still adds a lot of the positive attributes of tube gear. You should try his Aikido circuit sometime, it may displace your preference for transistors.
 

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