Best Classic European Sports Car

Alex Plache

New Member
Apr 28, 2010
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At the risk of starting a controvery, my vote for the best classic sports car of all time is the Alfa Romeo GTZ (tubulare Zagato) of which approximately 100 were made between 1963 and 1965. I believe the cars sold new for around $8400. It weighed around 1500 lbs and had a 1.6 liter engine and was virtually unbeatable in its class. Check it out on Google.
 

kach22i

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Apr 21, 2010
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1973 Porsche 911 RS Carrera (known as the ducktail car)
Example:
http://www.classiccarsforsale.co.uk/classic-auction-car.php/carno/2008-07-22-BON-226A


Carrera RS (1973 and 1974)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porsche_911_classic#Carrera_RS_.281973_and_1974.29
 
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JackD201

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Apr 20, 2010
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My vote goes here. It was THE supercar of it's day.

 

Albertporter

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Apr 27, 2010
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Many years ago I was invited to a Southwest Airlines party since I did photography for their magazine. Deep in the evening, standing among a group of guys that (also) owned a Porsche 911 we were discussing fuel injection, best tires and maintenance when a guys standing nearby introduced himself into the conversation.

We returned to discussing all things Porsche when the new guy piped in, "I'll tell you what, I'm pretty impressed with that little Toyota Tercel."

We broke up soon after.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
My vote goes here. It was THE supercar of it's day.



Clearly my all time favorite was the Gull Wing. It was always the show stopper and best in silver as shown above. They only get to be worth more as time passes
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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One of my favorites when I was in med school was this baby seen below, a Jaguar XKE convertible, best in the green or red color



i purchased a British Racing Green/tan leather 1966 XKE 4.2 Roadster in 1971 (for $1600) and owned it for 2 years. it had 83,000 miles when i bought it and i soon discovered it burned a quart of oil a day. after a few months i rebuilt the engine....which was a learning experience. all the pistons had been installed backwards (the Brits numbered the pistons from back to front and someone had got it mixed up at a prior 'freshening'.

it was an amazing car for a 20 year old to own back then. 2400 pounds, 250hp, triple SU carbs (which from my TR3 and MGB experiences i was adept at adjusting with a length of hose).

i owned it until i got married in 1974 as then my priorites were different; i got all of $2100 for it. In the same condition i sold it; it would now be worth north of $50k.

oh well.....
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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Sounds like you lost some weight (500lbs) and may have added some Hp there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_E-Type

Still a heck of a ride, I'd love to own any of the cars mentioned so far.

i was doing it from memory. you are close on the weight.....2700 pounds is more like it.

but i am low on the HP.

whereas the triple SU HD8 carburettor version was rated at 265 hp (198 kW) gross (the difference in the measurement systems being significant).

from;

http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_XK6_engine
 

Mike Lavigne

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The throttle response and glorious sound of carbs (plus the smell) add a dimension to these classic cars which spec sheets fail to convey adequately.

yep; the 66' 4.2 was very quick and had an intoxicating growl; however it had a 4 speed and a 3.54 rear axel ratio so you would run out of RPM's at 120 MPH.....but still have lots of power to go much faster. the European versions had a much lower (or maybe higher would be more accurate) ratio and would do 150 MPH+.

for pure sex appeal my earlier Austin Healey 100-6 was even more rolling art and sound; but it was a terrible design mechanically.
 
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Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
another one of my all time favorites was the Ferrari Berlinetta Boxer 512BB produced beteen 1973 and 1984

Replacing the immortal 365 GTB/4 Daytona, a car that has passed into motoring legend as one of the worlds finest, fastest and most exclusive GT vehicles - this was the almost impossible task facing Ferrari's Berlinetta Boxer. The new two-seater would be substantially different from previous models in two respects. Firstly, Ferrari opted for a Flat-12 engine - the traditional V12 had been ditched. Equally importantly though, the F1-derived motor would be mounted in the middle of the chassis to improve handling.


The first 12-cylinder Ferrari production car to use this configuration, for the firms customers it was an opportunity to own a true Ferrari supercar, Lamborghini having adopted the mid-engined layout nearly seven years earlier with their incredible Miura. Ferrari had some catching up to do then and the Berlinetta Boxer road cars evolved in three distinct series, the 365 GT4 of 1973 to ’76, the 512 of 1976 to ’81 and the 512i of 1981 to ’84. Additionally, three series of factory-built LM racing cars were manufactured by the Assistenza Clienti department. 1973's BB production car was inspired by the unique P6 Berlinetta Speciale, a one-off shown on Pininfarina's stand at the 1968 Turin Salon. An almost faultlessly executed design study, the P6 was conceptualised with a three-litre 500bhp 60° V12, but was itself nothing more than a rolling starlet, its greatest contribution having been to pioneer many stylistic details that would be found on Ferrari's mid-engined sports cars of the seventies. The 365 GT4 BB rode a traditional ladder type frame manufactured from welded tubular steel, this being designed from the ground up in order to accommodate that mid-mounted engine. Suspension was independent all round with coil springs and telescopic shock absorbers. Hydraulic ventilated disc brakes were fitted front and rear, as were the familiar five spoke light alloy knock-on wheels manufactured by Cromodora.


Ferrari’s longitudinally positioned, mid mounted Flat-12 featured a displacement of 4390cc thanks to a bore and stroke of 81mm x 71mm respectively. It was clearly derived from the three-litre motors used so successfully in the 312 B and B2 Grand Prix cars raced by the Scuderia Ferrari between 1970 and ’74. With compression set at 8.8:1 and four triple choke downdraught Weber 40 IF3 C carburettors, it produced 360bhp at 7500rpm, endowing the stunning GT4 Berlinatta Boxer with exceptional performance.



Always referred to as a Flat-12 over-square Boxer, the dimensions of these engines are actually more like those of a V-banked engine with an angle of 180°. Regardless, with a top speed in excess of 175mph and 0-60 in just 5.4 seconds, the GT4 BB was an impressive performer in 1973 and remains so even today. Because of its totally new layout, the Berlinetta Boxer inevitably looked radically different to front V12-engined GT’s of the past. Pininfarina, the Turin-based carrozzeria, had established an almost exclusive relationship with Ferrari stretching back twenty years and were unsurprisingly the designer of choice to clothe the firms new chassis and engine combination. Today, the Boxer stands as a testament to the quality of Italian automotive design in the seventies, period features mixing with an aggressive elegance that will never date. Scaglietti of Modena fabricated the bodywork entirely from steel apart from the doors, front lid and engine cover, all of which were in aluminium. So in vogue during the seventies and eighties, retractable headlights were mounted high up the sweeping front wings. Located above either clear plastic or orange-coloured supplementary light covers, they lent the Boxer a distinctive look albeit one not too unlike Lamborghini’s Countach. Between the retractable headlight pods was a brushed aluminium vent whilst the front lid led up to a rakish teardrop-windowed cabin.



Flying buttresses swept from the convex back window to the rear wing extremities, the BB's tail being of the Kamm cut-off variety with a minimal overhang. Like the 365 GTC/4 and GT4 2+2, the tail housed triple light clusters either side of the rear facia, a six exhaust set-up having been a rare treat. With its mixture of creases and curves, Pininfarina's stunning Berlinetta Boxer has to rank as one of the most accomplished automotive designs of its era. Importantly though, it remains one of only a few to retain great elegance.


Inside, the cabin was also created by Pininfarina who managed to combine traditional Ferrari detailing with a cockpit that shared no real componentry or dimensions with any previous models. Trimmed in a manner that befitted such an expensive machine, the Boxer was appointed for high-speed grand touring, the interior bearing little similarity to competition machines of the period. Well-padded, stylish and trimmed in leather, the seats took some cues from previous models but were now less heavily bolstered than before. The leather-covered instrument binnacle and dash became more boxy and less aesthetically pleasing. Traditional Ferrari items like the triple aluminium spoked, leather-rimmed steering wheel and chrome-plated open gate gear shift were included in a cabin that overall should be applauded for its ingenuity and styling. Although launched production-ready at the Paris Salon during October 1973, the first prototype had been seen as long ago as Turin ’71 but nevertheless, Ferrari's new berlinetta caused a sensation and despite some commentators mourning the loss of a front-engined GT, almost everyone agreed the new model was a seriously impressive motorcar. Production continued until late 1976, by which time the successor to this 4.4-litre 365, the new 5-litre 512, had replaced it. 387 GT4 Boxer's were completed in little more than three years, 58 of which were in right-hand drive.

Car Ferrari 365 GT4 Berlinetta Boxer
Years Made 1973 - 76
Debut Paris Salon, October 1973
Number produced 387 (inc. 58 RHD)


Chassis Tubular steel spaceframe
Type Unknown
Wheelbase 2500mm
Configuration Rear-wheel drive
Front suspension Independent, unequal A-arms, coil springs, telescopic shocks
Rear suspension Independent, unequal A-arms, coil springs, telescopic shocks
Track front 1500mm
Track rear 1510mm
Brakes front Ventilated discs
Brakes rear Ventilated discs
Wheel type Cromodora knock-off alloy
Wheel dimensions front 15-inch diameter, 7.5-inch width
Wheel dimensions rear 15-inch diameter, 7.5-inch width
Tyres front 215/70 VR-15
Tyres rear 215/70 VR-15
Weight (dry) 1235kg
Overall length 4361mm
Overall width 1800mm
Overall height 1120mm
Fuel tank Unknown


Engine Normally aspirated 180° Ferrari Flat-12
Location Mid-mounted, longitudinally positioned
Type Unknown
Displacement 4390cc
Bore & Stroke 81mm x 71mm
Cylinder head DOHC / 2 valves per cylinder
Compression ratio 8.8:1
Carburetion 4 x Weber 40 IF3 C downdraught
Ignition Twin distributors
Lubrication Wet sump
Output 360bhp @ 7500rpm
Maximum torque 311 lbs ft @ 4500rpm
Transmission 5-speed Ferrari
Top Speed 175mph
0-60mph 5.4 seconds
0-100mph
11.8 seconds


Designer Carrozzeria Pininfarina, Turin, Italy
Coachbuilder Carrozzeria Scaglietti, Modena, Italy
Body style Berlinetta
Material Steel with alloy opening panels
Seats 2


No cost options Cloth seat inserts; 'Boxer' paint finish
Optional extras Contrasting seat inserts & piping; Metallic paint
Production Changes None



 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
2006 Mercedes Benz SL55 AMG

I still enjoy mine. May not be a classic but fun as hell to drive with 500hp

Mine has special wheels as well as the optional and somewhat rare AMG Performance Package.

This is the last car I will ever buy. It is just too much fun to drive

Obsidian Black with grey interior.


 

RUR

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Here is a link to some photos of an Alfa Romeo TZ 1:

Now we're talking!

One of my top 3: Aston Martin DB4 Zagato



Only 20 made, price is now in the $millions. In person, the Wow! factor is off the charts.

In my youth, I had a '61 356B, '62 Austin Healey 3000 MkII and '61 Alfa Giulietta - all purchased for under $2K. Should've kept them all....
 
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brianherlihy

New Member
Apr 21, 2010
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New York
Now we're talking!

One of my top 3: Aston Martin DB4 Zagato=QUOTE




One of the shareholders in my company is a man named Johan Rupert, one of the wealthiest South Africans and definitely the best car collection in Africa, if not the Southern Hemisphere. Right now he houses 168 cars, but in his top five ar the DB4 Zagato and the DB3 SE (one of 3 made ever). i agree that the cars are stunning. btw his favorite car is a 1939 Bugatti - to me the most striking car ever built.
 

RUR

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
647
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btw his favorite car is a 1939 Bugatti - to me the most striking car ever built.
Which model Bugatti, Brian? There are many and, yes, most are extraordinarily beautiful.

Here's another of my favorites:



Late '30s Talbot Lago. Another car which must be seen in person to be fully appreciated. If you like these streamline designs, pick up a copy of Curves of Steel, by Jonathan Stein & Michael Furman.
 

brianherlihy

New Member
Apr 21, 2010
106
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New York
that is beautiful, pretty sure it is was the 1939 Bugatti Type 57C - stunning. they found one similar to this in a garage in upstate NYC. hadn't been touched in 40 years. Sotheby's said it was worth $3 million before any work was done to it (and it needed a lot of work).
 

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