Challenge Classics

Audiocrack

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How does Challenge classics compare to Channel Classics?

Both companies are very good indeed. Ultimately and generally speaking I prefer Challenge Classics from a sound perspective. Btw, many moons ago Jared and Bert worked together. After a while Bert started Turtle records and more recently Challenge Classics.

In my talks and mails with him, Bert always points out that we audiophiles are 'blinded' by formats or format wars - pcm versus dsd - and numbers - dsd 64, dsd 128 and dsd 256 (and in the near future maybe even higher dsd rates?) because in his view (other) elements in the recording chain - quality of the used microphones, quality of the other recording equipment, the way the microphones are being used, the recording venue, etc. - are clearly more important. I suppose Bert is right as he is a very experienced and knowledgeable recording engineer and producer that has come up with a large number of outstanding sounding recordings. That said - and being an audiophile myself - I am particular impressed with his dxd and dsd 256 recordings.

May I suggest that you try out one of the dsd 256 or dxd Bruckner recordings by Jaap van Zweden? I am pretty sure you will be impressed soundwise. By the way, Jaap van Zweden was this week appointed as the new (chief) conductor of the New York Philharmonic Orchestra so he will leave Dallas as chief conductor.
 

bonzo75

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Perfect thanks. Will do.
 

amirm

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The closely related names sure confused me at first, winding up on Channel Classics first when I read this thread!
 

Audiocrack

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The closely related names sure confused me at first, winding up on Channel Classics first when I read this thread!

Well, you cannot go wrong with either of them, I think, as both are (relatively small) independant record labels that pay special attention to the sound quality of their recordings. In my opening contribution to this thread I mentioned various Dutch quality labels including Pentatone and the various websites of these three labels. Challenge Classics can be easily distinguished as it is the only classical label of the three that offers its recordings (also) in the dxd, dsd 128 and dsd 256 formats. Channel Classics and Pentatone (mostly; on www.primephonic.com you can order various Pentatone recordings in pcm 24/96) only have dsd 64 recordings available although I know that Pentatone also records (some of their recordings) in dsd 128.

As I mentioned elsewhere on WBF Challenge Classics records in dxd and its various dsd offerings are based on these dxd recordings. On www.spiritofturtle.com you can find the technical explanation of Bert van der Wolf why he has opted for this approach. Most of his (very good sounding) Turtle records were however originally recorded in dsd 64 and cannot be ordered in the dxd, dsd 128 or dsd 256 formats.
 
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Audiocrack

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Before I started buying my first Challenge Classics dxd and dsd 256 recordings I asked Bert van der Wolf which of his many classical recordings he particularly liked from a sound perspective. Although maybe a somewhat impertinent question to a recording engineer/producer who is undoubtly (very) proud of all his recordings Bert was kind enough to mention a few of his favourites. One of his favourite recordings is volume 1 of the piano concertos of Beethoven with the Dutchman Hannes Minnaar on piano and Jan Willem de Vriend conducting the Netherlands Symphony Orchestra. Needless to say that I bought this recording and I immediately understood why Bert had recommended it to me.

This recording was very recently reviewed by Adrian Quanjer on www.hraudio.net

For those who are interested I quote Adrian's review:


"There isn’t any shortage of Beethoven piano concerti on disk; even in Super Audio there are 21 ‘Emperors’ to choose from. Many have collected high scores, though performers approach them often from quite different angles. Some tend to forget that the most important part is the composer’s. It’s, of course, hardly possible to improve on that. Much easier is it to spoil things by trying to stand out of the crowd with quirky mannerisms or excessive tempi (either way). Best is to play Beethoven as it’s indicated in the score. That’s precisely what Hannes Minnaar is doing. Middle of the road? In my view his’ ís the road.

For those less familiar with his name: Minnaar is an up and coming pianist from Holland, 3rd laureate at the 2010 ‘Concours Reine Elisabeth’, Brussels, and gaining in prominence in Europe & beyond ever since. His style may perhaps best be characterized as sensitively romantic, musically inventive, with much tonal beauty and fluent precision. It’s illustrative that for the finals he chose to play Saint-Saëns’ mysterious and exotic fifth piano concerto, rather than such war horses as Rachmaninov or Tchaikovsky. Then what are his credentials when it comes to Beethoven? Hannes Minnaar studied at the Conservatory of Amsterdam. He was a pupil of Jan Wijn, who directed him towards traditional repertoire. Aged 17, he already played Beethoven’s fifth piano concerto with the Symphony Orchestra of the Amsterdam Conservatory under the baton of Frans Brüggen.

What makes this recording furthermore so special, is the stimulating input of Jan Willem de Vriend and his Netherlands Symphony Orchestra. De Vriend comes from the HIP scene (Combattimento Consort Amsterdam). When he became Chief Conductor he remodeled this orchestra into a hybrid band, replacing the brass with period instruments and using sticks for the tympani, thus creating its own, typical sound for 18th and 19th century repertoire.

Taking the individual characteristics of Soloist, Orchestra and ‘Chef’ together we have all the ingredients for playing Beethoven as it should be, nothing more, nothing less, with 19th century orchestral sound and a piano tailored to perfection. A glowing example of how to shape in unison a memorable musical experience; participating as equals in creating a monumental edifice called ‘Ludwig van Beethoven’.

Power play doesn’t seem to be Minnaar’s trade; his ‘power’ comes from well-chosen accentuation and subtle shifting from piano to forte; here adequately supported and, where needed, intensified by de Vriend. His orchestra’s contribution should not be under estimated and the beginning of both concerti gives them ample opportunity to show their cards: Marvelously precise strings and joyful shining brass.

Both Minnaar and de Vriend resist the temptation to exaggerate the dramatic converse between piano and orchestra in the second movement of the fourth, whereas Minnaar shows his sensitive and exquisite pianism in the second movement of the fifth, beautifully shaped and stylishly accompanied by de Vriend. It sounds as though the notes stream unhindered from the brain through the arms to the keyboard.

The final movement of the Emperor is simply glorious, complete with roaring brass and rattling tympani, be it that I do realize that not everyone may be as thrilled as I.

There is one thing which strikes as odd: The cadenza in the first movement of the 4th piano concerto. It’s not the usual one and the booklet doesn’t say whose it is. I suspect Minnaar is the inventor.

The recording is up to the very high standard of Bert van der Wolf’s NorthStar Recording Services. You won’t miss a thing, including the dying out of soundboard of the grand at the end of the outer movements in both concerti.

This first Volume of the projected complete set is now my favourite for no’s 4 and 5, and I’m looking forward with great anticipation to the next.

Blangy-le-Château
Normandy, France"

Volume 2 of the Beethoven pianoconcertos nos. 1 & 2 with Minnaar and De Vriend will probably be released next month.
 
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bonzo75

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Great post
 

Audiocrack

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Great post

Thanks. Challenge Classics will release volume 2 of the Prokofiev symphonies next month. As remarked before I enjoyed volume 1 of the Prokofiev symphonies in dxd as well as in dsd 256. Volume 1 was reviewed on www.hraudio.net as well and the sound quality of this Prokofiev recording was specially mentioned.

Btw, this volume 1 of the Prokofiev symphonies was also recommended by Bert to me.
 
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Audiocrack

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See the attached link for the latest newsletter from Challenge Classics: to celebrate the appointment of Jaap van Zweden as the new musical director of the New York Philharmonic Orchestra Challenge Classics offers Bruckner's 6th symphony - played by The Netherlands Radio Philharmonic Orchestra directed by Jaap van Zweden - at a 25% discount. Furthermore all other Challenge Classics titles with Jaap van Zweden can be ordered at a 10% discount. These titels include for example Wagner's Parsifal (although not available in dsd 128, dsd 256 and dxd) and Britten's war requiem which recording is (also) available in all afore mentioned formats.

http://spiritofturtle.com/news/newsletter-160201.jpg
 
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Audiocrack

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Furthermore volume 2 of the Beethoven piano concertos (nos. 1 & 2) by Hannes Minnaar on piano and The Netherlands Symphony Orchestra directed by Jan Willem de Vriend has just been released by Challenge Classics in all formats (dsd 256, dsd 128 and dsd 64 as well as in dxd, pcm 24/192, pcm 24/96 and in 44.1 KHz). Have not heard this volume 2 myself yet but if it as as good as volume 1, it will sound very impressive indeed.
 

Audiocrack

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For those who might think that I am somewhat over enthusiastic about the sound quality of the various Challenge Classics recordings I include a review of volume 1 of the Beethoven piano concertos by Hannes Minnaar and The Netherlands Symphony Orchestra conducted by Jan Willem de Vriend in the March 2016 issue of the Absolute Sound. The reviewer Andrew Quint gives this recording a 5 out of 5 rating soundswise and 4 out of 5 rating for the performance. This reviewer writes the following:

"The unanticipated gem is the Challenge Classics disc, which features an unfamiliar young Dutch pianist supported by an innovative (but under-the-radar) conductor and a respected but hardly world-famous orchestra—recorded in absolutely state-of-the-art sound. The last aspect is perhaps not a surprise, as the disc has been produced, engineered, and mastered by Bert van der Wolf of Northstar Recording Services, the source of some of the most realistic recordings I’ve ever encountered, in several genres. Northstar’s multichannel methodology in particular provides scaling, dimensionality, spaciousness, transparency, and tonal accuracy that’s as good as ou’ll hear, all in the service of the vital and technically polished performances created by soloist Hanness Minnaar and conductor Jan Willem de Vriend, who has successfully integrated period brass instruments— e.g. valveless horns—into a “modern” orchestra. Andrew Quint"

Please keep in mind that Andrew Quint reviewed 'only' the sacd version of this recording in The Absolute Sound. The dxd and dsd 256 versions of this volume 1 of the Beethoven piano concertos sound clearly superior to the sacd version.
 
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bonzo75

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AC your next project should be to set up a good MCH system with channel and challenge classics MCH CDs :) We heard the Mahler 2 from channel classics in 2 Ch, 5 Ch, and then hamper up sampled to auro 3d 13.4 channels, latter was way better.
 

Audiocrack

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AC your next project should be to set up a good MCH system with channel and challenge classics MCH CDs :) We heard the Mahler 2 from channel classics in 2 Ch, 5 Ch, and then hamper up sampled to auro 3d 13.4 channels, latter was way better.

How did the 2ch compare to 5ch, Bonzo? Adding the same quality loudspeakers to my current ones will likely result in my bankruptcy, let alone the lack of space in mu current listening room. So a new dedicated listening room is what I need (as well)?!
 

bonzo75

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The 5 CH was also much better. Well that CD is recorded in 5CH.

The system I heard was in a 7m * 3m room, but he had a 13.4 system in there - 2 big B&W 802 diamonds in front, and the others smaller ones of the 800 series...a 7 channel on the floor, a five channel on the ceiling, and a speaker directly overhead as per Auro 3d. The processor was Datasat RS20i.

Kal Rubinson is a big proponent of MCH for classical and his stereophile reviews are exclusively MCH

It's a problem when our favorite front two speakers are asymmetrical panels or expensive cones or horns. But otherwise I would play digital through MCH and have Analog for 2-ch, all in the same system, which makes it more cost efficient. Have centre channel same as L and R but two small speakers for rears.
 

Audiocrack

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Volume 2 of the Challenge Classics Beethoven piano concertos has been recently reviewed by Adrian Quanjer. This volume 2 was rewarded with the maximum score of five stars for both the performance and sonics. Adrian Quanjer wrote the following:

"Review by Adrian Quanjer - February 9, 2016


Looking at the cover it may seem like a bad omen: Jan Willem de Vriend, Chef of the Netherlands Symphony Orchestra turning his back on soloist Hannes Minnaar. I ignore any deeper artistic thinking behind it, but as far as the music is concerned I can wholeheartedly assure potential buyers that this second Volume of the complete Beethoven piano concerti is every bit as good as the first. For best listening I suggest -neighbours permitting- turning up the volume somewhat more than usual to be completely submerged by the supreme sound, letting you savour to the fullest extent the extraordinary musicianship of all concerned. The recording can easily handle it. Need I say more?

For those who haven’t read my comments concerning Volume 1, let me briefly repeat some of it: Minnaar is an up and coming pianist from Holland, 3rd laureate at the 2010 ‘Concours Reine Elisabeth’, Brussels, and gaining in prominence in Europe & beyond ever since. His style may perhaps best be characterized as sensitively romantic, musically inventive, with much tonal beauty and fluent precision. Power play doesn’t seem to be Minnaar’s prime trade; his ‘power’ comes from well-chosen accentuation and subtle shifting from piano to forte, adequately supported and, where needed, intensified by de Vriend.

The liner notes make a point of the order in which the concerti have been set to disk. Although one can play any of the two at any one time, practice has it that, indeed, in most cases both will automatically be played after one another. Changing the order by playing 2 first is, therefore, well judged as No. 2 is closer to the traditional, classical form, whereas No. 1 is much more elaborate and mature. Moreover, as noted in the same notes, 2 is, in its basic concept, older than 1.

However, Beethoven kept on tinkering with no.2 until he got it right in its present, most likable form, with, as most striking difference with the original(s), the total replacement of the final rondo by another one, introducing syncopated rhythms like, in those days, no one but Beethoven would have dared to do. For me, this ‘makes’ the concerto, and together with the delightful first and charming second movement, characterizing no. 2 -judged by Beethoven not to be one of his best!- as the almost perfect appetizer of what is to follow. Especially the way it’s performed under the delicate hands of Hannes Minnaar.

Beethoven’s much bolder First in C major crowns this Volume. As said elsewhere, the attraction of the performance lies in its honesty. Minnaar doesn’t add to, nor subtract anything from the score; all he does is making it as transparent as possible, thereby greatly helped by Jan Willem de Vriend and his orchestra. With neither obstinate historical nor profoundly mysterical practices, he delivers all the same a thorough and finely tuned 19th century orchestral sound.

The lengthy introduction sets the scene for Minnaar’s entrée: Measured, precise; never ‘over done’ and yet immediately engaging. He is not ‘up-front’ but remains part of the total soundstage, as befits his elegant modesty.

At the end of the first movement Minnaar plays Beethoven’s own, close to five minutes long and difficult cadenza, qualified by Stephen Hough as “an insanely exuberant example of how he might have sounded when improvising”, taking the considerable risk of breaking up the flow of the music. However, he does so in such a way that it adds to the momentum, building up tension towards a powerful conclusion. I should add that in doing so, Minnaar demonstrates at the same time being perfectly capable to driving his Grand to its limits whenever required.

After an Adagio of endless beauty, played with sensitivity and a healthy measure of understatement, Minnaar & Co follow with a brilliantly uplifting Rondo Allegro molto, pulling all the stops, with once again syncopating down beat rhythms, finally coming to a glorious conclusion with jubilant, brass on historical instruments and rattling kettle drums.

Here we have a soloist playing with an orchestra, rather than an orchestra playing for a soloist, and the combined effort under de Vriend’s inspirational baton makes it virtually impossible not to like these two performances. Are we witnessing an alternative hybrid top choice of a new, monumental Beethoven piano concerto cycle in the making? I believe and, awaiting the final installment, sincerely hope so!

Blangy-le-Château,
Normandy, France

Copyright © 2016 Adrian Quanjer and HRAudio.net"
 

Audiocrack

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Challenge classics.jpg

This is the newest offering of Challenge Classics with a discount. I have not heard this new file yet but I bought the sacd many moons ago and was really impressed, musically as well as soundswise.
 

Audiocrack

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Last week Challenge Classics released a new Prokofiev recording: the symphonies nos. 6 & 7, played by the Netherlands Radio Philharmonic Orchestra directed by James Gaffigan. I eagerly awaited this volume 2 in the serie of Prokofiev symphonies because volume 1 - with symphonies nos. 3 & 4 - had really impressed me, both from a musical and sound quality perspective. I have listened so far only (and relatively shortly) to symphony no. 6 but I can already conclude this recording sounds possibly even better than volume 1. What a beautiful recording! Huge soundstage, beautiful tonality and in both dsd 256 and dxd oh so transparent. I believe Bert van der Worlf has outdone himself with this symphony no. 6. To everyone who likes/loves Prokofiev and stunning (large orchestral) sound: buy this one because I promise you that you will not regret it.
 
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Audiocrack

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Btw, symphony no. 7 sounds gorgeous too.

If I would compare the dxd and the dsd 256 versions of this recording (but it is the same with the other dxd/dsd 256 recordings I bought from Challenge Classics): the dxd file sounds in my Tidal LA/Kondo system with the Lampizator Golden Gate dac somewhat more open as well as somewhat more powerful than the dsd 256 file. This is possibly due to the fact that Bert van der Wolf records in dxd.

However, the dsd 256 file counters with a more beautiful or smoother sound. The dsd 256 versions sound in Dutch more "ingetogen" than the dxd files, that is more 'modest' according to the official translation although I believe in this case the expression 'laid back' is more appropriate.
 

Audiocrack

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Thank you for posting this ^^ :)

You are most welcome Andrew.

Btw, Johannes Vermeer was a genius and is one of my favourite painters. The girl with a pearl earring is such a beautiful and touching painting. Hope you had the opportunity to see this painting 'for real'. In the (mentioned) Mauritshuis in the Hague two more Vermeer painting can be found including his view of Delft, Vermeer's native city.
 

Andrew Stenhouse

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You are most welcome Andrew.

Btw, Johannes Vermeer was a genius and is one of my favourite painters. The girl with a pearl earring is such a beautiful and touching painting. Hope you had the opportunity to see this painting 'for real'. In the (mentioned) Mauritshuis in the Hague two more Vermeer painting can be found including his view of Delft, Vermeer's native city.

Sadly not. On my bucket list of things to do. My wife and I hope to get to Europe in the next 10 years, and a visit to the Mauritshuis is certainly on the agenda: I very much like thier website and enjoy spending time looking at their hi resolution pictures. I hope to see the RCO while in the NL at the same time. I agree - an amazing painter.
 

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