Challenge Classics

Audiocrack

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I guess we are lucky in the Netherlands to have quite a few - relatively small but independant - record companies that take great care and pride in the quality of their dsd and pcm recordings. Channel Classics is a company well known to our members and I have praised their - only dsd 64 - recordings in the past in another thread I started on WBF. You can find their - almost only classical - recordings on www.channelclassics.com as well as on www.nativedsd.com.

Another fine Dutch recording company is Pentatone. Most Pentatone recordings are native dsd 64 although some are available in pcm 24/96 as well. See www.pentatonemusic.com as well as www.promephonic.com. The primephonic website is interesting because - like www.nativedsd.com - not only Pentatone recordings are offered but also other brands like Caro Mitis (recorded btw in Russia by the Pentatone crew; some of the Caro Mitis recordings sound very impressive indeed), Chandos, etc. Unlike www.nativedsd.com not only native dxd and dsd recordings can be downloaded but also pcm recordings. Furthermore the primephonic website offers interesting background stories.

Recently I rediscovered the topic of this thread, Challenge Classics. It was a rediscovery for me because in the past I bought quite a few Turtle Records (sa)cd's. Some of these Turtle Record (sa)cd's were quite famous for their lifelike and high quality recordings. Some of you might remember recordings of many years ago like Op of Tony Overwater, Prokofievs Romeo & Juliet by Carrefour and various Franz Liszt piano recordings by Yoram Ish-Hurwitz. Now you might raise the question: what has Turtle Records to do with Challenge Classics? Well, if you go to www.spiritofturtle.com you can find some dsd 64 downloads of these old Turtle recordings. Bert van der Wolf of Northstar Recording was the driving force behind the old Turtle Records (sa)cd's but is also the driving force behind the current Challenge Classics recordings.

As an audiophile I am always on the look out for better musical home reproduction. In that regard it is very interesting that Bert is offering his current Challenge Classics recordings in various formats. Bert records his current Challenge Classics recordings in dxd but these recordings are offered to the public in various formats such as in red book, pcm 24/96, pcm 24/192 and pcm 24/352.8 (DXD) as well as in dsd 64, dsd 128 and dsd 256. For a technical explanation why Bert is recording in dsx I refer to: http://spiritofturtle.com/what-is-high-resolution-audio. According to Bert he is combining the best of both worlds by recording in dxd but offering these recordings in dsd format.

Recently I bought some Challenge Classics recordings in the 24/192, dxd and dsd 256 format. They sound absolutely awesome in my Tidal LA/Kondo/Lampi GG dac system (notwithstanding the fact that I am currently facing some problems with my Lampizator GG dac/server combo) and belong to the best files I have heard to date. Therefore I refer all classical music lovers to the spiritofturtle website.

Currently Bach's Weihnachtsoratorium by Sigiswald Kuijken's La Petite Bande is the Challenge Classics album of the month and available against a 25% discount on the spiritofturtle website. To my ears - in dxd as well as in dsd 256 - this is an absolute fantastic recording, not only from a quality of sound perspective but also from an interpretative point of view. So I would say: try it out in these Chrismas days and I promise you will not regret it!

Lastly, may I ask all other WBF members to add their sonic experiences with various Channel Classics recordings to this thread?
 
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Audiocrack

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Elsewhere on WBF I put the following post. Because its topic is the Challenge Classics technical approach I list it here again.


Quote Originally Posted by bmoura View Post: "The DSD 256 titles on the Turtle site are DSD 64 recordings that are upsampled to DSD 128 and DSD 256."

I, that is audiocrack, started today a new thread with regard to Challenge Classics files because I am very, very impressed by their dxd and dsd 256 files. Furthermore, I noticed today the quoted reaction from BMoura. I am sorry to report that this reaction/quote is not correct. None of the dsd 256 files and dsd 128 files of Challenge Classics are upsampled from (native) dsd 64 recordings. Native dsd 64 recordings are only offered as dsd 64 files on the spiritofturtle website. All Challenge Classics dsd 256 and dsd 128 files are created from the 'clean' native dxd masters. In my post on the Challenge Classics thread I inserted a link in which Bert van der Wolf explains the technical reasons for his approach. Hopefully all possible misunderstandings in this regard have now been solved.
 
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amirm

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Thanks for the thread and introduction to these new sites! I am sampling them now and have the Bach Weihnachtsoratorium in my cart. For others reading this, you have to go to the spiritofturtle site to get the 25% discount, not challenge classics.
 

amirm

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Bought 8 albums. Half are Turtle though, not Challenge. Did you want feedback only on Challenge?

BTW, the turtle site is almost unusable from US. It runs extremely slow. I am going to have to leave the machine running overnight to get the downloads to finish. They need to get a better server/CDN given the large file sizes involved. Their web site should not be slow for such few albums in their catalog. But it is. It takes 15 to 20 seconds for a page to open. My link to the Internet is very fast (170 mbit/sec). So it is not at our end.
 

Audiocrack

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Thanks for the thread and introduction to these new sites! I am sampling them now and have the Bach Weihnachtsoratorium in my cart. For others reading this, you have to go to the spiritofturtle site to get the 25% discount, not challenge classics.

You are most welcome Amir. First of all I wish all our members a happy and healthy happy new year!

And you are right: I should have mentioned more clearly that the various Challenge Classics files can be found on the website www.spiritofturtle.com
 
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Audiocrack

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Bought 8 albums. Half are Turtle though, not Challenge. Did you want feedback only on Challenge?

BTW, the turtle site is almost unusable from US. It runs extremely slow. I am going to have to leave the machine running overnight to get the downloads to finish. They need to get a better server/CDN given the large file sizes involved. Their web site should not be slow for such few albums in their catalog. But it is. It takes 15 to 20 seconds for a page to open. My link to the Internet is very fast (170 mbit/sec). So it is not at our end.

Of course feel completely free to give feedback on Turtle and Challenge Classics recordings alike. Please keep in mind that the Turtle records are of older vintage and not available in dxd and dsd 128 or dsd 256 files. I have been listening lately to the Challenge Classics dxd and dsd 256 files and these belong imho to the very best classical recordings/files available at the moment (from a sound quality perspective although there is of course a lot to like musically speaking as well given the quality of the musicians).

As regards the slowness of the site: the dxd and dsd 256 files are obviously very large and it takes indeed some time to download them completely. I bought recently quite a few Challenge Classics files and indeed it took time but I did not experience the extreem slowness you are referring to. I can send Bert van der Wolf a mail next week and ask him about it.
 
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amirm

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I am going to disappoint you by saying that I am downloading PCM versions of their files :). They charge a lot more for DSD and for now at least, I don't see the benefit in paying that premium.

Let me go and check to see if the four downloads that I started finished. And please let them know about the slowness of the sites. The files I was downloading were about 2.2 Gigabytes and the download rate was orders of magnitude times slower than other high-res sites.
 

bonzo75

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Amir you need a good DHT based NOS tube dac to justify the premium ;)
 

LL21

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Amir you need a good DHT based NOS tube dac to justify the premium ;)

Hey Bonzo...just replied your PM but your inbox is full. If you can clear it out, then i will send my PM back to you. HNY!!!
 

amirm

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Holy cow... Just listened to the first album: http://www.challengerecords.com/products/1216754860/

Dean Peer, Think... it is all good.


It has easily risen to the top of my reference tracks. The dutch engineers have managed to capture dynamic range, acoustic presence, and warmth like there is no tomorrow. It is a formula I have seen used in classical recordings I have that are mastered and recorded there. It is a winning combination.

BTW, the music is a bit odd but the fidelity is worth the price of admission. BUY THIS! I am not kidding. I will give you your money back if it is not what I said.
 

Audiocrack

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I am going to disappoint you by saying that I am downloading PCM versions of their files :). They charge a lot more for DSD and for now at least, I don't see the benefit in paying that premium.

Let me go and check to see if the four downloads that I started finished. And please let them know about the slowness of the sites. The files I was downloading were about 2.2 Gigabytes and the download rate was orders of magnitude times slower than other high-res sites.

You do not disappoint me at all; of course buy the files that suit you best. Although I am particular impressed with the dxd and dsd 256 files of various classical files Bert van der Wolf is very clear on one aspect when I had contact with him lately: we audiophiles are blinded by formats and numbers. According to him other aspects in the record chain are (much) more important that the (file) formats. Anyway, if you like the pcm 24/96 files I am pretty sure the higher res files will make you smile even more.

I will contact Challenge Classics/spirit of turtle next week and will inform them about the slowness of the download speed.
 

astrotoy

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I have about 22 of the Challenge Classics SACD albums, including several multi CD sets, so about 30 or so SACD's in total. They were all purchased from Berkshire Record Outlet (broinc.com) which has been around for a ton of years (I bought vinyl from them 20 0r 30 years ago). They stock titles that they get from manufacturers and distributors that are excess inventory or discontinued at low prices (I think most of my Challenge Classics were $7.99 per disc, although the multidisc albums were around $5 per disc. They are all classical titles. Some fairly well known artists mixed with lesser known. I just did a search on the BRO website, and they currently have 123 Challenge Classics titles in stock. Some are CD's and others are SACD's. From their home page, you have to go to labels, then advanced search and scroll through their labels list. I've sampled a few of them so far (all mch rips I did of the SACD's with my PS3). Fine sonics and performances. BRO has a nice selection of Channel and Pentatone SACDs also for similar prices.

Larry
 

Drikus

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Holy cow... Just listened to the first album: http://www.challengerecords.com/products/1216754860/

Dean Peer, Think... it is all good.


It has easily risen to the top of my reference tracks. The dutch engineers have managed to capture dynamic range, acoustic presence, and warmth like there is no tomorrow. It is a formula I have seen used in classical recordings I have that are mastered and recorded there. It is a winning combination.

BTW, the music is a bit odd but the fidelity is worth the price of admission. BUY THIS! I am not kidding. I will give you your money back if it is not what I said.

I have this one from Turtle Records on SACD: http://spiritofturtle.com/shop/witness-download/

8713606130003-cover.jpg

Outstanding SQ! Get it if you don't already have it, you won't be disappointed.
 

Audiocrack

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Amir, did you already have a chance to give the Weihnachtsoratorium recording of Challenge Classics a listen?
 

Audiocrack

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I see lately a lot of 'intellectual battles' raging as a result of continous bad behavior of one of our members. Furthermore I recently noticed the bashing of another forum. All a waste of time and energy imo. I rather see our members share experiences with beautiful music (files).

Therefore once more my request to our members: please share your insights regarding the Challenge Classics and Turtle files. Thanks.
 

amirm

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I see lately a lot of 'intellectual battles' raging as a result of continous bad behavior of one of our members. Furthermore I recently noticed the bashing of another forum. All a waste of time and energy imo. I rather see our members share experiences with beautiful music (files).
Well said. Wish I could snap my finger and we would do a lot more of that.

Anyway, thanks to you I have been enjoying the music I bought from CC. I post the brief feedback on one of them here: http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...hases-I-enjoy)&p=365909&viewfull=1#post365909. I can put a copy here if you like.
 

amirm

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Amir, did you already have a chance to give the Weihnachtsoratorium recording of Challenge Classics a listen?
Yes I did. Twice as a matter of fact. I love Bach and this was no exception. Track 2 for example could not last long enough. Thankfully it was over 7 minutes :).

On the fidelity side, the recording has a lot of ambiance. That gives it ample depth and width, soundstage wise. Perhaps a bit too much on my rather live room.

The overall tone is soft with occasional highs coming through. Dynamic range is very good but not in the same class as the other title I mentioned. Being a junkie when it comes to dynamic range :), I would have wanted the drums to come thundering through as opposed to background support. But perhaps that would screw up the intent of the performance. I don't know.

Not sure if this is the kind of feedback you wanted but here it is.
 

astrotoy

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Yes I did. Twice as a matter of fact. I love Bach and this was no exception. Track 2 for example could not last long enough. Thankfully it was over 7 minutes :).

On the fidelity side, the recording has a lot of ambiance. That gives it ample depth and width, soundstage wise. Perhaps a bit too much on my rather live room.

The overall tone is soft with occasional highs coming through. Dynamic range is very good but not in the same class as the other title I mentioned. Being a junkie when it comes to dynamic range :), I would have wanted the drums to come thundering through as opposed to background support. But perhaps that would screw up the intent of the performance. I don't know.

Not sure if this is the kind of feedback you wanted but here it is.

I listened to the mch SACD rip of the Challenge Classics Christmas Oratorio. Very fine, both sonically and musically. Comes in an oversize case with lots of extra information in three languages. $10 from Berkshire Record Outlet.

Larry
 

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