Great article on "Analogue Warmth"

TBone · Dec 26, 2015

spazmatron said:
oh well you will have to send your linn off for upgrade lol

when I ask Linn about any such possible upgrade in the future, they keeled over laughing.

Johnny Vinyl · Dec 26, 2015

FrantzM said:
Simple

I prefer Digital to analog and frankly do not care about format. It has come to me , these past few years that we audiophiles, do let our love for the reproduction of music get in the way of enjoying the Music itself. This came to me when I noticed that I had listened only one time to an album by an artist I like: Erykah Badu , Ameryka PArt II because it is too compressed ) Oh God it is! .. Meanwhile my kids were enjoying it though their iPod buds... SO I almost force myself to concentrate on the music first whatever the medium , even if it is mp3 which BTW i find quite enjoyable on 320 Kb/s.

Frantz...I couldn't agree with you more! And I've been saying this since the day I started in this hobby and I have yet to waver from from it. I am absolutely convinced that those who focus more and/or primarily on sound quality are missing out somewhat on the music itself, because there is a lack of involvement in what the artist intended to be heard. (lyrics, rhythm, melody, etc). The "art" gets pushed aside in favour of the constant look for mechanical accuracy.

Al M. · Dec 26, 2015

microstrip said:
And yes, my 2016 high-end decisions will be listening to the GG and Lamm's in my system - the Vivaldi is out of my reach ...

I plan to audition the dCS Rossini DAC soon. To be honest, I have rather high expectations, let's see if they will be satisfiied.

TBone · Dec 26, 2015

Al M. said:
I appreciate the positive responses to my post towards the beginning of the thread and am glad that for a large part it was able to steer the discussion into a more fruitful direction than the old and tired warm vs. cold debate.

redundant(*) more than tiring ... that said, I don't think it's a coincidence that (at least in my audiophile world) better vinyl/analog products today sound more "digital" (in the best sense of that term) than ever; while the same can be said w/digital sounding more like better "analog".

(*)given the same mix, in theory, they should sound identical.

Al M. · Dec 26, 2015

Johnny Vinyl said:
Frantz...I couldn't agree with you more! And I've been saying this since the day I started in this hobby and I have yet to waver from from it. I am absolutely convinced that those who focus more and/or primarily on sound quality are missing out somewhat on the music itself, because there is a lack of involvement in what the artist intended to be heard. (lyrics, rhythm, melody, etc). The "art" gets pushed aside in favour of the constant look for mechanical accuracy.

For musical reasons CD remains my medium of choice. Most of the new music and/or performances I listen to (classical, classical avantgarde, [avantgarde] jazz) are only available in this format, so I concentrate on it and plan to extract the most out of it as much as my financial means allow for it. This also means no distractions by PCM high-res, DSD and the like. Not enough music there. The love of music comes first for me, audiophilia second.

Al M. · Dec 26, 2015

TBone said:
redundant(*) more than tiring ... that said, I don't think it's a coincidence that (at least in my audiophile world) better vinyl/analog products today sound more "digital" (in the best sense of that term) than ever; while the same can be said w/digital sounding more like better "analog".

(*)given the same mix, in theory, they should sound identical.

You said it well.

Johnny Vinyl · Dec 26, 2015

Al M. said:
For musical reasons CD remains my medium of choice. Most of the new music and/or performances I listen to (classical, classical avantgarde, jazz) are only available in this format, so I concentrate on it and plan to extract the most out of it as much as my financial means allow me to do so. This also means no distractions by PCM high-res, DSD and the like. Not enough music there. The love of music comes first for me, audiophilia second.

And IMO that's the way it should be, regardless of format choice and their quality of components you own. It is absolutely wonderful to sit back and listen to a fave artist and through a killer system, but it should be equally as wonderful to do the same on your kitchen undercounter CD player. If it does that...then you're connecting with the music.

microstrip · Dec 26, 2015

Al M. said:
For musical reasons CD remains my medium of choice. Most of the new music and/or performances I listen to (classical, classical avantgarde, [avantgarde] jazz) are only available in this format, so I concentrate on it and plan to extract the most out of it as much as my financial means allow for it. This also means no distractions by PCM high-res, DSD and the like. Not enough music there. The love of music comes first for me, audiophilia second.

+1! But I diverge on jazz - here LP rules, and by a still wide margin! I am not an expert in jazz, and found that many recordings I can enjoy in LP lack rhythm and melody in CD.

Al M. · Dec 26, 2015

microstrip said:
+1! But I diverge on jazz - here LP rules, and by a still wide margin! I am not an expert in jazz, and found that many recordings I can enjoy in LP lack rhythm and melody in CD.

When it comes to older jazz, yes, I agree. I totally enjoyed my day a few weeks ago listening to Madfloyd's system when we played for a large part 50s and 60s jazz on his phenomenal vinyl rig. But a lot of new jazz is only vailable on CD.

I do not find a lack of rhythm in CD playback anymore, but that is only since I have the Berkeley Alpha 2 DAC -- in fact, I think rhythm on CD kicks ass with that unit (fed data through my Simaudio CD transport), both on jazz and rock.

But I agree that rhythm & timing has long been a major problem in CD playback. Prior to my current DAC I had four CD playback systems that all fell short in this area.

Johnny Vinyl · Dec 26, 2015

microstrip said:
+1! But I diverge on jazz - here LP rules, and by a still wide margin! I am not an expert in jazz, and found that many recordings I can enjoy in LP lack rhythm and melody in CD.

If both come from the same mastering...how are they different.

microstrip · Dec 26, 2015

FrantzM said:
(...) In the process of acquiring a Devialet 200. Pondering on my next move in term of speakers and subs in that room.(...)

It is a big dilemma. IMHO if you are going to use subs, you are giving away the best of the Devialet - the clean, firm and extended bass and SAM.

Curiously the Devialet had in me the effect you reported - I started avoiding recordings because they did not sound good enough with it, I was always trying to ameliorate the system looking for new cables and tweaks. You will be pleased with one aspect of them - never found an equipment that depends so much on the quality of the mains!

microstrip · Dec 26, 2015

Johnny Vinyl said:
If both come from the same mastering...how are they different.

It is one of the reasons it is difficult to find the real reason - I have read that sound engineers master differently for each media.

Purite Audio · Dec 26, 2015

microstrip said:
It is a big dilemma. IMHO if you are going to use subs, you are giving away the best of the Devialet - the clean, firm and extended bass and SAM.

Curiously the Devialet had in me the effect you reported - I started avoiding recordings because they did not sound good enough with it, I was always trying to ameliorate the system looking for new cables and tweaks. You will be pleased with one aspect of them - never found an equipment that depends so much on the quality of the mains!

Not my experience with the Devialet at all, I found it a very neutral amp, quiet easy to configure , it is obviously a one box solution
and one cannot evaluate it with for example an external dac.
Keith.

Johnny Vinyl · Dec 26, 2015

microstrip said:
It is one of the reasons it is difficult to find the real reason - I have read that sound engineers master differently for each media.

In many cases they do.....I don't know about all. And if the mastering is different, then yes.....it stands to reason there are differences.

TBone · Dec 26, 2015

Al M. said:
I do not find a lack of rhythm in CD playback anymore

many digital players homogenize instrumental impact, and therefore lack pace & rhythm ... but I've heard far too many turntables confuse pace & rhythm also ... so I certainly wouldn't consider PR&T as any sort of "analog" advantage.

FrantzM · Dec 26, 2015

bonzo75 said:
This is a different hobby. If you want to enjoy listening to and discovering music there is no better alternative than digital. However analog sounds better, so I plan to have it for my favorite music, while digital will be for pragmatism and easy listening. But if that were the case, ideally I should have an oppo with funds reserved for TT, but then upgraditus kicks in. I am under no illusion that I pursue this audiophile hobby from a different perspective than I pursue my music hobby

I like that sincere reply. I would just add the requisite "IMO" to the "analogue sounds better".

TBone · Dec 26, 2015

Johnny Vinyl said:
If both come from the same mastering...how are they different.

they shouldn't be different. If they are, then perhaps something else is amiss.

Funny, for a time there, at audiophile shows and store demo's, certain LPs were used to demonstrate the "analog advantage" in comparison to the same CD. The LP, generally, would always win these battles, so naturally ...

Later, I realized some of those LPs were actually recorded natively to digital @16/48 then converted/pressed to LP. When I play those particular CDs in comparison to the similarly mixed LPs today, the CD now comes out on top.

So perceptions can change, over time & technology ...

Blizzard · Dec 26, 2015

bonzo75 said:
GG will be better than vivaldi in all systems. Vinyl will be better than both. Sorry to sound absolutist. The density of brass and the tone of violins can't be equalled on digital. Maybe very good master files can come close, but there will be few of them. The liquidity of vinyl will also be greater. Just heard a vivaldi stack with Dan agostino pre and momentum, transparent opus cabling, on Wilson Alexandria x2s2. It was much superior to a Rockport avior I heard on crap digital. However that avior system, once the spj alba with koetsu coral stone was plugged in, did things to me this vivaldi Alexandria system could not achieve ten percent of. I am off on Monday to look at a kuzma xl4 with 4 point tonearm.

Sounds like your GG needs a decent USB interface. Might fix the brass density issue

Also try HQplayer.

bonzo75 · Dec 26, 2015

Blizzard said:
Sounds like your GG needs a decent USB interface. Might fix the brass density issue Also try HQplayer.

The guys on lampi have been using HQP from before you entered the world of audiophilia with your high end auditions with NAD, ML ascent, and Celine Dion demo tracks

Blizzard · Dec 26, 2015

bonzo75 said:
The guys on lampi have been using HQP from before you entered the world of audiophilia with your high end auditions with NAD, ML ascent, and Celine Dion demo tracks

?? I don't recall those auditions. Try a good USB interface like the JL sounds unit:

http://jlsounds.com/i2soverusb.html

For your GG.

and a good HQplayer NAA compatible streamer like the one in this thread:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?19221-Streamer-to-kill-the-big-boys-for-under-250

You may find the shortcomings you claim your GG has like brass density, and tone of violin, may be solved.

Great article on "Analogue Warmth"

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