Nagra HD Dac

pjwd · Jun 16, 2017

bmichels - if you have the transformers for the balanced out installed on the hd dac , the volume control is disabled.
I have all the bits to uninstall the transformers and test the pre in the dac but probably will never be motivated given all the other things I want to do - it certainly would be interesting. I suspect it would be very system dependant

Cheers
Phil

jfrech · Jun 17, 2017

bmichels said:
What I really wonder is what is the advantage to use a HD Pre in addition of a HD DAC to drive a power amp like the HD AMP (in the case you only use digital sources) ?

Indeed, the HD DAC has volume control and therefore can be connected directly to the HD AMP ! will it sound better with the Pré ?

I've read that the HD Pre uses a new dual transformer based volume control. This could be big improvement vs the potentiometer in the HD DAC. I also suspect the amp section of the HD Pre to be substantially better than what they can include inside the HD DAC (size and cost reasons) - which I suspect the preamp section in the HD DAC is closer to a Nagra Jazz or Classic preamp (these are GREAT preamps btw !)

My dCS Vivaldi sounds quite a bit better to me using a top flight preamp. It sounds great direct to amps...just better with preamps.

bmichels · Jun 17, 2017

jfrech said:
.... I also suspect the amp section of the HD Pre to be substantially better than what they can include inside the HD DAC (size and cost reasons) - which I suspect the preamp section in the HD DAC is closer to a Nagra Jazz or Classic preamp (these are GREAT preamps btw !)

thank you for your answer. When you write "I also suspect the amp section of the HD Pre to be substantially better than what they can include inside the HD DAC", do you mean the headphone amp ?

Also; you mention the classic Pre, & the Jazz. Have you compared the headphone out of the Classic Pre with the Headphone out of the HD DAC ?

pjwd · Jun 17, 2017

bmichels
I am on a road trip now but can compare the headphone out on the HD dac vs the halcro pre when I get back - not what you asked about but may give an indication of the quality of the dac
As with jfrech I have generally found a dedicated pre-amp a benefit
Cheers
Phil

Taiko Audio · Jun 17, 2017

pjwd said:
bmichels - if you have the transformers for the balanced out installed on the hd dac , the volume control is disabled.
I have all the bits to uninstall the transformers and test the pre in the dac but probably will never be motivated given all the other things I want to do - it certainly would be interesting. I suspect it would be very system dependant

Cheers
Phil

I thought that would be the case aswell however after fitting the transformers the volume control still operates! Interestingly the addition of the output transformers to the hd dac when running through a nagra jazz preamp WITH the optional input transformers fitted is still an improvement.

pjwd · Jun 17, 2017

Amazing ! - I never tried it - I will do as soon as I get back - thanks for the tip

jfrech · Jun 18, 2017

bmichels said:
thank you for your answer. When you write "I also suspect the amp section of the HD Pre to be substantially better than what they can include inside the HD DAC", do you mean the headphone amp ?

Also; you mention the classic Pre, & the Jazz. Have you compared the headphone out of the Classic Pre with the Headphone out of the HD DAC ?

Hi, no on the headphone amp...I don't own headphones. Just postulating the preamp section of the HD pre is likely a improvement over what they can squeeze into the HD dac... I see another poster likes his Jazz with the HD DAC. Again using the HD DAC straight to a amp is likely great...just great preamps, in my experience, seem to be additive vs subtractive to our musical enjoyment.

bmichels · Jul 1, 2017

jfrech said:
Hi, no on the headphone amp...I don't own headphones. Just postulating the preamp section of the HD pre is likely a improvement over what they can squeeze into the HD dac... I see another poster likes his Jazz with the HD DAC. Again using the HD DAC straight to a amp is likely great...just great preamps, in my experience, seem to be additive vs subtractive to our musical enjoyment.

Finally I got an Official answer from NAGRA by René Laflamme who wrote me on NAGRA's Facebook page: " Hi M. Michels, we will give a release date for the HDPreamp and the HDdac upgrade in August. The HD-PREAMP will be featured at the RMAF in October ! "

So... there will be soon an UpGrade from NAGRA for the HD DAC . (at least to support DSD 4x)

Nagra852 · Nov 21, 2021

EuroDriver said:
Nagra HD with the optional output transformers - Wow

2 months ago we heard a Nagra HD with the optional output transforms hooked up to a Nagra Jazz Preamp. The sound from PCM 16 /44 being up sampled to DSD 128 using HQ Player running on the Sound Galleries Music Server was so good, we felt we need to order one as well !

With the holiday delays we only received the unit and the output transformers yesterday, and we had to do the transformer install job ourselves. It did give us an opportunity to look inside. Here you see the standard output PCB

View attachment 30413

That comes out, and this board goes in

View attachment 30414

The resulting sound is hauntingly beautiful. There is a sonic transparency, clarity and coherence delivered which one usually associates with the finest vinyl rigs. IMHO anyone who is seeking to assemble a state of the art digital system include this DAC with the optional output transformers on their must audition list.

We used Bespoke TVC to as volume control for this test

Hi,

i’m a new member here, could you share your balanced output module installed picture ? Here is mind, and i find the jumper is quite a difference from others…

jfrech · Nov 21, 2021

Nagra852 said:
Hi,

i’m a new member here, could you share your balanced output module installed picture ? Here is mind, and i find the jumper is quite a difference from others…

Hi, I have never owned the Nagra HD DAC. However I have owned many Nagra products and it's odd all those jumpers are open. I just went to their website and they don't have the manuals posted for the Balanced Transformer option. I would email Nagra or your dealer and find out what those jumpers do and set them appropriately.

The switch, I am only guessing is stereo or mono, my Classic phono has a similar switch. But it could be some other function in your DAC.

Can you look in your manual in case it has the jumper positions/functions?

Nagra852 · Nov 21, 2021

hi, thanks for your reply, i have read the manual already, that’s nothing mention about the balanced transformer, this one is my tube dac, but i know the balanced output module is same as HD dac

pjwd · Nov 21, 2021

Nagra852 said:
Hi,

i’m a new member here, could you share your balanced output module installed picture ? Here is mind, and i find the jumper is quite a difference from others…

Have not opened mine but do have a packet of jumpers that go back in when you remove transformers so I presume they go in spots you show ... does it currently work OK
Phil

Nagra852 · Nov 21, 2021

The picture is show day one when i received the tube dac and it was no any problems with it, recently, it was no sound and i need to put back all the jumper on it and it was resume to normal, but the sound was quite a difference than before….

Nagra852 · Nov 21, 2021

pjwd said:
Have not opened mine but do have a packet of jumpers that go back in when you remove transformers so I presume they go in spots you show ... does it currently work OK
Phil

Hi , Phil
You mean you received a packet of jumper when you asked dealer remove the transformers of your dac ?

pjwd · Nov 21, 2021

Nagra852 said:
Hi , Phil
You mean you received a packet of jumper when you asked dealer remove the transformers of your dac ?

Well ... I ordered mine with the transformer option and nagra did the install but supplied me with the jumpers they had removed while installing it ... presumably so I can remove the transformer if I want the volume control back.
I am not sure what happens when both the transformers and jumpers are installed but I expect its wrong
I would think your original problem was not related to jumpers
Does the volume control now work
Phil

mr-particle · Nov 21, 2021

Nagra852 said:
Hi,

i’m a new member here, could you share your balanced output module installed picture ? Here is mind, and i find the jumper is quite a difference from others…

I also own the Nagra HD DAC including the output transformer, which I have not installed by the way.
But I have the user guider for the transformer which I requested from Nagra just recently.
Please send me a PM and I can send you the PDF showing also the setting of the jumpers for different setups.

pjwd · Nov 21, 2021

mr-particle said:
I also own the Nagra HD DAC including the output transformer, which I have not installed by the way.
But I have the user guider for the transformer which I requested from Nagra just recently.
Please send me a PM and I can send you the PDF showing also the setting of the jumpers for different setups.

MrP
Have you ever been tempted to drop in the transformer for a listen .. I bought it on reputation and have not listened to the alternative
Phil

Nagra852 · Nov 22, 2021

pjwd said:
Well ... I ordered mine with the transformer option and nagra did the install but supplied me with the jumpers they had removed while installing it ... presumably so I can remove the transformer if I want the volume control back.
I am not sure what happens when both the transformers and jumpers are installed but I expect its wrong
I would think your original problem was not related to jumpers
Does the volume control now work
Phil

Hi, Phil

when installed balanced transformer, the volume control will not be active anymore, manual already mentioned.

mr-particle · Nov 22, 2021

pjwd said:
MrP
Have you ever been tempted to drop in the transformer for a listen .. I bought it on reputation and have not listened to the alternative
Phil

Hello Phil,
I have purchased the HD DAC as preowned unit and was also missing the jumpers at that time.
I made some trial with my balanced line stage I have used at this time, but stopped the trials after becoming aware of the missing jumper.
This took some time be course Nagra is not giving any information about the output transformer in their manual ?
I then upgraded the Nagra HD DAC with the newer Nagra Classic DAC digital engine and moved to the Classic Preamp, so have no further need to connect both units balanced.
Best
Axel

pjwd · Nov 22, 2021

Nagra852 said:
Hi, Phil

when installed balanced transformer, the volume control will not be active anymore, manual already mentioned.

Sure I understand .. just wondering if jumpers changed it .. hence the different sound .. a clumsy suggestion
Hopefully the manual sorts it

Phil

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