Nadac?

pjwd · Dec 12, 2015

Hi Andrew - congrats on the NADAC - I have a friend who does live recording up here in Brissie and has moved from nagra to forssell to horus - I have heard it at my place and it is stunning ( just after I got the nagra HD dac

) - have not had a chance to compare the same program on each dac but it was very impressive....... and more cost effective

cheers,

Phil

andrew_stenhouse · Dec 12, 2015

Ok Mike. I did just as you suggest and you are 100% correct. Converted to dsd pcm does sound better through my Nadac.

Gday Phil - thanks. It is a cracker. I bet your Nagra is no slouch either. The Nadacs should be available here next March or so. Anytime you are down this way you are welcome - although of course it will sound like a Horus I expect.

Blizzard · Dec 12, 2015

pjwd said:
Hi Andrew - congrats on the NADAC - I have a friend who does live recording up here in Brissie and has moved from nagra to forssell to horus - I have heard it at my place and it is stunning ( just after I got the nagra HD dac ) - have not had a chance to compare the same program on each dac but it was very impressive....... and more cost effective

cheers,

Phil

Yes the Hapi is 1/3rd the price, but same boards inside. Only difference really is the inability to parallel all 8 channels for better performance.

andrew_stenhouse · Dec 12, 2015

Mike
Do you have hapi? or are you building a sabre based dac with a Ravenna interface?

Blizzard · Dec 12, 2015

andrew_stenhouse said:
Ok Mike. I did just as you suggest and you are 100% correct. Converted to dsd pcm does sound better through my Nadac. Thank you for the suggestion. Very helpful.

Gday Phil - thanks. It is a cracker. I bet your Nagra is no slouch either. The Nadacs should be available here next March or so. Anytime you are down this way you are welcome - although of course it will sound like a Horus I expect.

Now to get the best out of it. You need to ensure the settings are right. I'll provide you with my favorite settings, and you can tweak from here.

First thing is to go into the Dsdiff/DSD settings and ensure DirectSDM is checked:

Then go into settings and set everything exactly to these settings. The only difference is the ASIO device will be different. The PCM settings don't matter, so put to whatever:

Then on the main screen, once file is cued, make sure these settings are enabled:

Now sit back and enjoy the best PCM you've ever heard

andrew_stenhouse · Dec 12, 2015

Thank you Mike
That was very valuable - I have set up to your defaults (on OSX atm so core audio and DoP) and agree with your conclusions.

Excellent contribution to my thread - cheers

Blizzard · Dec 12, 2015

andrew_stenhouse said:
Thank you Mike
That was very valuable - I have set up to your defaults (on OSX atm so core audio and DoP) and agree with your conclusions.

Excellent contribution to my thread - cheers

I'm having some attachment glitches with the last post. Can't seem to delete the double screenshot.

Anyways 1 more tip, it will sound better with Windows as it with allow bypassing core audio with ASIO, and streaming DSD natively. They don't like telling everyone that as it will scare Mac guys away from the product.

No problem. I'm glad you like it. Maybe others will try as well even more beneficial with chipless DSD DAC's like the Lampi GG.

Blizzard · Dec 12, 2015

andrew_stenhouse said:
Mike
Do you have hapi? or are you building a sabre based dac with a Ravenna interface?

No I don't have a HAPI. I decided to go chipless DSD after running the top chips through the paces. With HQplayer, you get the holy grail of DSD and PCM from a well built chipless DSD only DAC.

Blizzard · Dec 12, 2015

Roon is teaming up with HQplayer to offer the best user interface out there with the HQplayer engine. This is the most exciting news in audio. You will be able to control the user interface with the best mobile iPad and android app out there. Also it integrates Tidal right into your main collection seamlessly. And best of all the Tidal can be processed through the HQplayer engine to upsample to DSD 256. This will take the quality of Tidal to unheard of levels.

It's a couple weeks away. They are in the final stages of development.

Follow it here:

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/hq-player-integration/1656

bibo01 · Dec 12, 2015

Sorry to intrude... just a little add-on to what Blizzard suggested.

DirectSDM is only useful and applies to DSD files, as it keeps them in the same untouched format. It does not apply to PCM upconverted files.
I would set Vol Max to -3dB as there are quite a few recordings that have digital clipping at -2dB. Therefore, -3dB is a safer setting.
In SDM defaults try also DSD7 as modulator and compare with DSD5v2 to your likeings.

Blizzard · Dec 12, 2015

bibo01 said:
Sorry to intrude... just a little add-on to what Blizzard suggested.

DirectSDM is only useful and applies to DSD files, as it keeps them in the same untouched format. It does not apply to PCM upconverted files.
I would set Vol Max to -3dB as there are quite a few recordings that have digital clipping at -2dB. Therefore, -3dB is a safer setting.
In SDM defaults try also DSD7 as modulator and compare with DSD5v2 to your likeings.

DirectSDM also applies to PCM upconversion as well. It bypasses the volume control, and the extra layer of filters. It clearly sounds better upsampling PCM on my unit.

But yes the -3db and DSD7 options are good to try.

andrew_stenhouse · Dec 12, 2015

Blizzard said:
Roon is teaming up with HQplayer to offer the best user interface out there with the HQplayer engine. This is the most exciting news in audio. You will be able to control the user interface with the best mobile iPad and android app out there. Also it integrates Tidal right into your main collection seamlessly. And best of all the Tidal can be processed through the HQplayer engine to upsample to DSD 256. This will take the quality of Tidal to unheard of levels.

It's a couple weeks away. They are in the final stages of development.

Follow it here:

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/hq-player-integration/1656

That is excellent news. As I have Roon and like the interface very much. I just bought HQ for Windows and OSX. Happy to support the developer.

Yes - my experience is ASIO is the superior pipe out. Was running it on boot camp - but have decided to just buy a suitable laptop or build something.

Very interesting.

@bibo - thank you for that - I will try the alternative settings. To busy listening atm however.

Blizzard · Dec 12, 2015

andrew_stenhouse said:
That is excellent news. As I have Roon and like the interface very much. I just bought HQ for Windows and OSX. Happy to support the developer.

Yes - my experience is ASIO is the superior pipe out. Was running it on boot camp - but have decided to just buy a suitable laptop or build something.

Very interesting.

@bibo - thank you for that - I will try the alternative settings. To busy listening atm however.

Yes I can't wait! I've been chomping at the bit since June. Seeing these screen shots was pretty exciting

also keep in mind it is processor intensive. I7 processor recommended for best performance converting to DSD 256.

bibo01 · Dec 12, 2015

Blizzard said:
DirectSDM also applies to PCM upconversion as well. It bypasses the volume control, and the extra layer of filters. It clearly sounds better upsampling PCM on my unit.

But yes the -3db and DSD7 options are good to try.

DirectSDM means that no DigitalSignalProcessing is applied to DSD, that includes volume control.
In the case of PCM>DSD upconversion, when a PCM file is converted into a DSD, the DSD file is not going to receive further DSP.

Blizzard · Dec 12, 2015

bibo01 said:
DirectSDM means that no DigitalSignalProcessing is applied to DSD, that includes volume control.
In the case of PCM>DSD upconversion, when a PCM file is converted into a DSD, the DSD file is not going to receive further DSP.

For some reason when I have DirectSDM checked when upsampling PCM to DSD, the volume control is disabled, and a veil is removed from the sound. Not a small veil either. Noticeable enough that I know when it's not checked clearly. This is part of the reason I'm using an analog volume control with my DAC, instead of the HQplayer volume control. My DAC is chipless, and extreme high resolution, so maybe it's harder to notice on some DAC's. Let's see if Andrew can tell on his NADAC. Listen to something very delicate and vividly clear. Like stringed instruments.

bibo01 · Dec 12, 2015

Blizzard said:
Yes the Hapi is 1/3rd the price, but same boards inside. Only difference really is the inability to parallel all 8 channels for better performance.

Yes, Merging precludes this possibility with Hapi. It is Emotion that allows to use all 8 internal D/A chips for 2 channels.
In reality for Hapi it would be enough to be able to pipe ch1 to ch1,3,5,7 and ch2 to ch2,4,6,8. Then, at Hapi output it is possible build a small 8ch>2ch converter, like some friends of mine have done.
With HQPlayer Matrix it is possible to pipe channels in the way above, but unfortunately it is resource hungry.

EDIT: I correct myself - Emotion now allows to pipe ch1 to ch1,3,5,7 and ch2 to ch2,4,6,8 with Hapi.

Blizzard · Dec 12, 2015

bibo01 said:
Yes, Merging precludes this possibility with Hapi. It is Emotion that allows to use all 8 internal D/A chips for 2 channels.
In reality for Hapi it would be enough to be able to pipe ch1 to ch1,3,5,7 and ch2 to ch2,4,6,8. Then, at Hapi output it is possible build a small 8ch>2ch converter, like some friends of mine have done.
With HQPlayer Matrix it is possible to pipe channels in the way above, but unfortunately it is resource hungry.

Well they need to disable some functionality to differentiate the products from each other. Either way, you can't go wrong with either product. Both are very good.

bibo01 · Dec 12, 2015

Regarding Emotion upsampling, following an ease of use especially with a tablet, Emotion includes Hepta Merging's upsampler. It upsamples pretty well to DXD, with little use of resources. Emotion probably sounds a bit audiophile - with mid slightly back and bass forward to impress.

Blizzard · Dec 12, 2015

bibo01 said:
Regarding Emotion upsampling, following an ease of use especially with a tablet, Emotion includes Hepta Merging's upsampler. It upsamples pretty well to DXD, with little use of resources. Emotion probably sounds a bit audiophile - with mid slightly back and bass forward to impress.

So in other words it's not as absolute pure and raw like HQplayer?

bibo01 · Dec 12, 2015

Blizzard said:
So in other words it's not as absolute pure and raw like HQplayer?

I hardly compare players for SQ nowadays.

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