Nadac?

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Mike Lavigne

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So am I the only member atm with one?

It is a very impressive unit to my ears.

I haven't heard all that many top converters so don't have a great breath of experience with them. But I'm happy. A couple rungs up on the Manhattan, which I also own, and is very good also. Particularly paired with the AHB2. Excellent synergy there. AHB2 is less synergistic with the Nadac, which isn't to say it is bad, just think the Nadac is a better converter than the AHB2 is an amplifier. Should be as well.

Will audition a few more amps. Just for fun. Fancy trying the ARC Ref 75, perhaps, and a couple local units. My speakers are 83 db and can be difficult to get to sound just so.

Andrew,

congrats on getting the Nadac. I don't know anyone else who has one yet. have you tried Quad dsd? I can't get my encounter with Quad on the Nadac out of my mind. very very impressive.

any sense of how it does redbook?

enjoy!
 

Kal Rubinson

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I don't know anyone else who has one yet. have you tried Quad dsd? I can't get my encounter with Quad on the Nadac out of my mind. very very impressive.
I have one in for review and, indeed, DSD256 in multichannel is very, very impressive. So is stereo.
 

dallasjustice

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I know the Mytek Manhattan, Antelope Platinum and a couple of other Sabre DACs can upsample all rates to DSD256. Can the NADAC do that?
 

Mike Lavigne

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make sure you 'go native' with the Quad files to really see what can be done. I much prefer my Native Quad to up-sampled Quad files. there is minimal difference between up-sampled Quad files and dsd128 files to my ears.
 

Bruce B

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Heard the NADAC several times and sounds just like my Horus. Top notch!!
 

andrew_stenhouse

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Thank you, gentleman.

@Mike: Yes - I have tried Quad DSD, and DXD384; both are sublime; I agree with you, that there is little to separate DSD 256 from DSD 128: I have both versions of several recordings for test purposes, and struggle to hear much, if any, difference. Perhaps a hair more liquidity, a tad more "ease", but really unless you played them back to back, and through a highly resolving system (and I do not claim for a moment my system or room is that) then one is unlikely to hear, I suggest, substantial benefit from the Quad DSD. I suggest the recording and transfer is more important than the sample rate here.

I have not listened in any great measure to PCM yet - frankly the DSD I have is so captivating, that I just haven't got to it yet.

I happened to have a (very good) Paul Haynes derived Linear power supply unit (12v 10A) that I had made a connector for the Nadac, and have tried that. I think it offers a positive improvement to the power plug, but wouldn't say it is night and day. Certainly it does not detract from its performance.

@ Kal, I'll look forward to your review, as I do with all your writing, which I find balanced, thoughtful and without manifest hyperbole (if I may offer my observation, and compliment). For a reviewer, you are a breath of fresh air. Ed Kramer is borrowing my unit to review for Australian Hi Fi magazine. Ed is a lovely man, and has a pro back ground, so comes at things slightly differently to your average reviewer. While like all reviewers he is loath to write a bad review, and to be fair while he usually only publishes reviews that are positive (the bad ones never get published), he is reliable in his findings.

I would love to be able to afford (and receive spousal permission for) surround sound, as to my ears and experience classical and jazz sound marvellous when properly recorded in this medium. Perhaps something for my retirement, if I make it that far : :)

@Micheal (DallasJustice) - hello; it is a pleasure to meet you. Lovely system you have. As Kal mentioned there is no internal up-sampling. I am agnostic about upsampling per se, and have found it is somewhat hardware dependant. Which is to say some converters (and transfer protocols) benefit from it and some do not. In my experience with the Manhattan it offers benefit with PCM although you can achieve much the same thing on server side. I particularly like red book upsampled to eg 24/192 and listened to over the headphone out. Very immersive. The native ASIO driver is also very transparent.

@Bruce - I am getting the opportunity to visit and spend time in a local production facility that specialise in DXD and DSD recordings (Merging + Horus & Hapi) of local (primarily live) mainly jazz performances for surround and two channel and hopefully attend some of the recording sessions, work permitting.


Set Up

With the Nadac a managed network switch is mandatory beyond one unmanaged connection.Hence why it works fine straight from a laptop, but not over an unmanaged network eg with my AIrport Extreme. The benefit of the ethernet protocol (and indeed the firewire protocol of the Mytek) is that I am experiencing extraordinary sound quality without having to pursue any particular form of dedicated server - hooray! no more flips and twists trying to make USB sound half decent. I anticipate picking up a (cheap) Dell or Lenovo Laptop to use the native ASIO driver Merging write, and so experience native DSD without DoP. Although I may just build a dedicated pc server for it - parts are cheap and saves me various headaches.

Overall I am very pleased with the purchase of the Nadac. It is in my view a stunning bit of kit, and very competitively priced compared to the (to me outrageous) comparable audiophile products (MSB and dCS come to mind here). As with the Manhattan, it offers stunning sound for £, and comes with my highest recommendation, particularly if you have a DSD library, as I do.

2 thumbs up from this side of the pond for DSD.
 
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Blizzard

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I know the Mytek Manhattan, Antelope Platinum and a couple of other Sabre DACs can upsample all rates to DSD256. Can the NADAC do that?

That's only a real advantage if it does a good job. $4 chips such as the AKM AK4137 can also up sample all rates to DSD 256. But can it do as good of a job as software like HQplayer? Not based on guy's I've talked to who have tested it. And it's the latest greatest SRC chip out there.


These chips can actually be a detriment as well. As some require the clock to be routed through them before the DAC chip. This adds jitter to the clean clock signal where it matters most, at the DAC chip.
 

astrotoy

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I've had my NADAC mch up and running for several weeks. Really fine. I've replaced my Exasound E28 and BADA2 DACs. Using the Merging Emotion Software, usually with my ipad. Emotion is PC only. Both stereo and mch run extremely smoothly - no glitches with Emotion. I can easily switch between stereo and mch, too. Displays my scanned album covers for my vinyl rips too. Big, solid piece of construction.

Larry
 

Blizzard

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I've had my NADAC mch up and running for several weeks. Really fine. I've replaced my Exasound E28 and BADA2 DACs. Using the Merging Emotion Software, usually with my ipad. Emotion is PC only. Both stereo and mch run extremely smoothly - no glitches with Emotion. I can easily switch between stereo and mch, too. Displays my scanned album covers for my vinyl rips too. Big, solid piece of construction.

Larry

Does Emotion offer any SRC from PCM to DSD or DSD to PCM? If so have you tried it out?
 

andrew_stenhouse

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I've had my NADAC mch up and running for several weeks. Really fine. I've replaced my Exasound E28 and BADA2 DACs. Using the Merging Emotion Software, usually with my ipad. Emotion is PC only. Both stereo and mch run extremely smoothly - no glitches with Emotion. I can easily switch between stereo and mch, too. Displays my scanned album covers for my vinyl rips too. Big, solid piece of construction.

Larry


Ahhh, thank you Larry.

Great to hear from another owner. I haven't tried Emotion yet - yet to pick up a Windows laptop for home - but have found the Nadac performs without issue on OSX via A+ or Roon.

Do you like me find it very transparent, but also very involving?

Which managed switch have you employed? is it a wireless one?

Lovely system, btw, I would love to hear it, one day.
 

Bruce B

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NADAC works great with JRiver. I'm sure it will work with my HQPlayer as well.
 

Blizzard

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NADAC works great with JRiver. I'm sure it will work with my HQPlayer as well.

But your onto bigger and better with Pyramix now. It would be cool if the same algo's you use for on the fly SRC/SDM that you say beat HQplayer, were available with Emotion.
 

astrotoy

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Does Emotion offer any SRC from PCM to DSD or DSD to PCM? If so have you tried it out?

Sorry, I have no idea what SRC means. Larry
 

Blizzard

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astrotoy

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Ahhh, thank you Larry.

Great to hear from another owner. I haven't tried Emotion yet - yet to pick up a Windows laptop for home - but have found the Nadac performs without issue on OSX via A+ or Roon.

Do you like me find it very transparent, but also very involving?

Which managed switch have you employed? is it a wireless one?

Lovely system, btw, I would love to hear it, one day.

If you are in the SF Bay Area one day, let me know and you can come by to listen. I really like the sound - agree with your description. My PM Model Two is a little better, but not at all convenient for easy playback and moving between different albums. And of course, it doesn't do mch.

My dealer has talked to me about a managed switch. Don't actual know what it is. Right now I connect the NADAC directly to my Tower PC with the ethernet cable Merging supplies. I have been using external hard drives connected directly to the computer. I did also try my big NAS drive (40+ TB) connected through my Apple hub (don't remember what that is called) which connects wirelessly to my computer. I don't connect the internet through it. It works fine with my computer, but doesn't connect very well with the ipad. So I use my backup files on external drives connected directly to the computer. I will be consulting with my dealer about a managed switch in the near future.

For the question about SRC, one thing I have not done is convert PCM files to DSD or the reverse, since the NADAC plays whatever I have natively. All my 34TB of vinyl and tape rips are 192/24 PCM that I did with my PM Model Two, using Pyramix software and the Merging Mykerinos Card (from five years ago). My mch files are almost all DSD64, from SACD's converted by my Playstation 3. I do have some DSD's purchased from Native DSD and others - a few up to 256.

Larry
 

Blizzard

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If you are in the SF Bay Area one day, let me know and you can come by to listen. I really like the sound - agree with your description. My PM Model Two is a little better, but not at all convenient for easy playback and moving between different albums. And of course, it doesn't do mch.

My dealer has talked to me about a managed switch. Don't actual know what it is. Right now I connect the NADAC directly to my Tower PC with the ethernet cable Merging supplies. I have been using external hard drives connected directly to the computer. I did also try my big NAS drive (40+ TB) connected through my Apple hub (don't remember what that is called) which connects wirelessly to my computer. I don't connect the internet through it. It works fine with my computer, but doesn't connect very well with the ipad. So I use my backup files on external drives connected directly to the computer. I will be consulting with my dealer about a managed switch in the near future.

For the question about SRC, one thing I have not done is convert PCM files to DSD or the reverse, since the NADAC plays whatever I have natively. All my 34TB of vinyl and tape rips are 192/24 PCM that I did with my PM Model Two, using Pyramix software and the Merging Mykerinos Card (from five years ago). My mch files are almost all DSD64, from SACD's converted by my Playstation 3. I do have some DSD's purchased from Native DSD and others - a few up to 256.



Larry


You should try to convert all PCM to DSD 256 on the fly with the HQplayer free trial. It will likely sound better as it then can bypass a big section of the DAC chips processing. Then if Emotion has the same option, compare the 2. All of the PCM gets converted to multibit DSD inside the chip anyways. There's no such thing as native PCM processing with Sabre chips.
 

andrew_stenhouse

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You should try to convert all PCM to DSD 256 on the fly with the HQplayer free trial. It will likely sound better as it then can bypass a big section of the DAC chips processing. Then if Emotion has the same option, compare the 2. All of the PCM gets converted to multibit DSD inside the chip anyways. There's no such thing as native PCM processing with Sabre chips.

Or be happy with what you have, as I am.;)
 

Blizzard

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Or be happy with what you have, as I am.;)

You can be, or you can be even happier to hear just how good PCM can sound through Sabre chips using HQplayer to resample to DSD 256. Free 30 day trial to find out for yourself. If you disagree, you will be the first to my knowledge, and simply uninstall.

The engineer behind the Sabre chip lives a couple doors down from me. I'm quite familiar on how it functions. It was a real eye opener when I realized a large percentage of the magic you hear from DSD is due to the bypassing of the internal SRC/SDM stage of the chip. HQplayer allows you to do this in the best way possible. However there's a chance Emotion has this feature as well, but I have no data on it.
 
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