MSB Select DAC II. The way every DAC on the planet should be built.

Groucho · Dec 1, 2015

I have to say that some of this audiophile stuff reminds me of myself when I was about 16. So pleased was I with my new-found abilities to build things that just about worked, I went overboard with the cosmetic appearance because I thought it would impress people. I can certainly remember making a crappy circuit look 'military'.

Just because a product exists, doesn't mean
(a) that there ever was any demand for it
(b) that its existence is self-evidently justified
(c) that it is worth the money being asked for it

asiufy · Dec 1, 2015

OK, since the price tag came up, I thought I'd mention that at the recent event we did locally, at a local audiophile's house, we tried the SELECT DAC *only as a preamp*, running his DAC/player first through the SELECT's analog inputs, and then through his own preamp (an $28k german made tube preamp with another $28k of NOS tubes). The SELECT was considerably superior to that as a preamp, by everyone's estimation, including our guest.

I tell ya, it was an eye-opener, even for me. I am pretty much a "preamp always" kind of guy, but this experience shook my beliefs.

I'm not saying everybody should replace their preamps with the SELECT, but it's important to know that the $90k will buy you a reference-level preamp as well. And since the whole DAC is modular, you can have analog RCA in, XLR in, etc.

Blizzard · Dec 1, 2015

Mike Lavigne said:
the end user pays a premium for modularity. just like the end user pays a premium for multiple boxes. both modules and multiple boxes have their issues. and in digital design there can be a small compromise in performance that comes with it as far as noise. the shortest signal path and most efficient circuit design becomes less a priority.

so it is one way to do it at the top of the food chain. but not the only proper way.

So is modularity one of things you dislike about your GG?

Mike Lavigne · Dec 1, 2015

Blizzard said:
So is modularity one of things you dislike about your GG?

unless they build one a different way I have no idea.

I'd guess looking at pictures of the GG internals and the MSB Select there are different levels of modularity. and $14k verses $110k there are different issues going on regarding what you are paying for.

Blizzard · Dec 1, 2015

Mike Lavigne said:
unless they build one a different way I have no idea.

Well you were talking about the drawbacks of modularity. So just wondering if you think the GG would be superior if it was all built on a single non upgradable PCB?

still-one · Dec 1, 2015

dallasjustice said:
Send me $90,000 and I'll send you a new DAC every year for five years. Each of the DACs I send you will have at least as excellent measured performance as the MSB. In five years, the DAC I send you will likely measure significantly better.

It's foolish to spend crazy money on DACs, IMO.

I agree that $90k is crazy to spend on a DAC even if it is the best DAC I have heard. We can get very close for much less.

Johnny Vinyl · Dec 1, 2015

still-one said:
I agree that $90k is crazy to spend on a DAC even if it is the best DAC I have heard. We can get very close for much less.

Like many other components. But hey...the market (however small) is there.

Mike Lavigne · Dec 1, 2015

Blizzard said:
Well you were talking about the drawbacks of modularity. So just wondering if you think the GG would be superior if it was all built on a single non upgradable PCB?

a better question would be that would most circuits when 100% optimized with the shortest signal paths be slightly better?

if modularity gets in the way of that then yes, on some levels it's a compromise.

when speaking about the MSB Select II we raise the bar to absolute uncompromised designs. so at that top level does modularity cause an element of compromise?

it's a question.

Blizzard · Dec 1, 2015

Mike Lavigne said:
a better question would be that would most circuits when 100% optimized with the shortest signal paths be slightly better?

if modularity gets in the way of that then yes, on some levels it's a compromise.

when speaking about the MSB Select II we raise the bar to absolute uncompromised designs. so at that top level does modularity cause an element of compromise?

it's a question.

Depends on how you lay it out. Some parts you want to be separated from other parts. You can build a DAC 100% no compromise either way. Except modularity allows for easy upgrading. It's a better way of doing things that adds a minimal cost to the BOM.

still-one · Dec 1, 2015

Johnny Vinyl said:
Like many other components. But hey...the market (however small) is there.

Yep. I was surprised that back in August MSB indicated that the first batch of 50 all had deposits.

dallasjustice · Dec 1, 2015

Johnny Vinyl said:
Like many other components. But hey...the market (however small) is there.

DACs are not like other components. There are significant improvements at regular intervals with digital. That's not true with preamps, amps or even speakers. For example, there will be a new DAC available next year which will blow the MSB away in the most significant performance parameters. It will cost a fraction of $90,000.

Blizzard · Dec 1, 2015

still-one said:
Yep. I was surprised that back in August MSB indicated that the first batch of 50 all had deposits.

Yes if you build quality, you will find buyers. There's many people who love music with deep pockets around the world.

You'll even find people who would spend 2.6 mil on this marvel of engineering:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FdxbysUSSAM

Elberoth · Dec 1, 2015

dallasjustice said:
DACs are not like other components. There are significant improvements at regular intervals with digital. That's not true with preamps, amps or even speakers. For example, there will be a new DAC available next year which will blow the MSB away in the most significant performance parameters. It will cost a fraction of $90,000.

'Next year' is probably a bit optimistic, but 3-4 years is more likely.

dallasjustice · Dec 1, 2015

Elberoth said:
'Next year' is probably a bit optimistic, but 3-4 years is more likely.

I've checked with the manufacturer. It will be released in about 6 months.

Elberoth · Dec 1, 2015

still-one said:
Yep. I was surprised that back in August MSB indicated that the first batch of 50 all had deposits.

That is not that much if you realise that they have about 25 distributors worldwide + some US dealers.

Elberoth · Dec 1, 2015

dallasjustice said:
I've checked with the manufacturer. It will be released in about 6 months.

OK, so you are talking about a specific product you are expecting to see ... I thought you were talking in general.

paul79 · Dec 1, 2015

dallasjustice said:
I've checked with the manufacturer. It will be released in about 6 months.

Ok, what is it?

dallasjustice · Dec 1, 2015

paul79 said:
Ok, what is it?

http://mola-mola.nl/index.php/dak

Blizzard · Dec 1, 2015

dallasjustice said:
http://mola-mola.nl/index.php/dak

I wonder what the holdup is?

paul79 · Dec 1, 2015

Specs are excellent looking, but the SNR is a bit lower on the Select. All the Totaldac's have a lower SNR as well.

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