MSB Select DAC II. The way every DAC on the planet should be built.

VPN · Jan 5, 2016

Blizzard said:
That's actually the case with most DAC's these days doubling as a competent pre as well.

Hello Blizzard,

List of DACs, with analog input and good preamp section:

1. MSB SELECT II. I understand that it has an analog input and does de preamplification in the analog domain, right Alexandre?

2. CH Precision C1. Has an analog input board, that you have to purchase, that does an Analog to Digital conversion, then the signal goes through the DAC section, then analog output.

Which other DAC's are also a preamplifier with an analog input, so that it can be used with a phono preamp as input? If possible, for each one, please specify if it performs the preamplification in the analog domain or it first performs and analog to digital conversion.

Thanks,

VPN

asiufy · Jan 5, 2016

Yes, all MSB DACs can be purchased with a full analog preamp, with XLR or RCA inputs (non-digitizing). It's optional on all the DACs but the SELECT.

Blizzard · Jan 5, 2016

VPN said:
Hello Blizzard,

List of DACs, with analog input and good preamp section:

1. MSB SELECT II. I understand that it has an analog input and does de preamplification in the analog domain, right Alexandre?

2. CH Precision C1. Has an analog input board, that you have to purchase, that does an Analog to Digital conversion, then the signal goes through the DAC section, then analog output.

Which other DAC's are also a preamplifier with an analog input, so that it can be used with a phono preamp as input? If possible, for each one, please specify if it performs the preamplification in the analog domain or it first performs and analog to digital conversion.
Thanks,

VPN

Well the phono section isn't as common on a DAC, but most DAC's with a volume control don't really require a preamp, unless the output stage is inadequate. All putting a preamp into the signal chain does is add coloration.

Personally if you're going to digitize your vinyl, I think it defeats the whole purpose of vinyl. Unless it's the ritual, and prestige of turntable ownership is what you do it for. I would take a download from master tape any day. Or if you're serious about getting the best digital vinyl,buy a good ADC and make high resolution vinyl rips. But good luck with them sounding as good as studio released high res versions direct from master tape. Unless of course the master tape no longer exists, or is damaged.

Purite Audio · Jan 5, 2016

Ripping rare or collectible vinyl might be a good idea, you will need a good ADC and some software, bear in mind that the ripping takes place in real time, then if you are going to de-pop or click and then the files have to be properly tagged, it is a long process.
Keith.

Blizzard · Jan 5, 2016

Purite Audio said:
Ripping rare or collectible vinyl might be a good idea, you will need a good ADC and some software, bear in mind that the ripping takes place in real time, then if you are going to de-pop or click and then the files have to be properly tagged, it is a long process.
Keith.

Not sure why you need to de click and de pop. If it's there when they are listening to the vinyl undigitized and they enjoy it, why must it be removed when digitized? Isn't that part of the whole vinyl experience?

Purite Audio · Jan 5, 2016

Blizzard said:
Not sure why you need to de click and de pop. If it's there when they are listening to the vinyl undigitized and they enjoy it, why must it be removed when digitized? Isn't that part of the whole vinyl experience?

It might be part of your vinyl experience, personally I prefer the background noise to be as non intrusive as possible, and if you are
going to the trouble of ripping why not make a good job of it.
Keith.

amirm · Jan 5, 2016

Any objections to moving this thread to Mike's forum since he started it?

VPN · Jan 5, 2016

Blizzard said:
Well the phono section isn't as common on a DAC, but most DAC's with a volume control don't really require a preamp, unless the output stage is inadequate. All putting a preamp into the signal chain does is add coloration.

Personally if you're going to digitize your vinyl, I think it defeats the whole purpose of vinyl. Unless it's the ritual, and prestige of turntable ownership is what you do it for. I would take a download from master tape any day. Or if you're serious about getting the best digital vinyl,buy a good ADC and make high resolution vinyl rips. But good luck with them sounding as good as studio released high res versions direct from master tape. Unless of course the master tape no longer exists, or is damaged.

Blizzard,

I am not talking about a DAC with a phono section and I am not going to digitize vinyl. The Analog to Digital conversion is the reason I would not consider purchasing the CH Precision C1 as a preamp for my personal use, but it has this option and I was told the AD conversion is quite good (I have not tried it).

What I mean is that many people have vinyl, and need a preamp. If a DAC that can drive a power amplifier directly does not have an analog input, I personally do not consider it a preamp.

Do you know any other DAC that is also a preamp (has analog inputs), besides the two that I mentioned? You said there are many.

Regards,

VPN

Gregadd · Jan 5, 2016

Wnen I visited Steve he took me pass the house of a guy who had a machine that could remove ticks and pos form a recording. I never learned how his project turned out.

bonzo75 · Jan 5, 2016

VPN said:
Blizzard,

I am not talking about a DAC with a phono section and I am not going to digitize vinyl. The Analog to Digital conversion is the reason I would not consider purchasing the CH Precision C1 as a preamp for my personal use, but it has this option and I was told the AD conversion is quite good (I have not tried it).

What I mean is that many people have vinyl, and need a preamp. If a DAC that can drive a power amplifier directly does not have an analog input, I personally do not consider it a preamp.

Do you know any other DAC that is also a preamp (has analog inputs), besides the two that I mentioned? You said there are many.

Regards,

VPN

My lampi has a phono input. Never used it though

Blizzard · Jan 5, 2016

VPN said:
Blizzard,

I am not talking about a DAC with a phono section and I am not going to digitize vinyl. The Analog to Digital conversion is the reason I would not consider purchasing the CH Precision C1 as a preamp for my personal use, but it has this option and I was told the AD conversion is quite good (I have not tried it).

What I mean is that many people have vinyl, and need a preamp. If a DAC that can drive a power amplifier directly does not have an analog input, I personally do not consider it a preamp.

Do you know any other DAC that is also a preamp (has analog inputs), besides the two that I mentioned? You said there are many.

Regards,

VPN

I agree. If you are going analog, go analog. If not make rips. I know there's more out there. Especially all in ones. Here's a good example of a unit that has phono stage as well as DAC and amp.

https://www.aavik-acoustics.com/products.html

Blizzard · Jan 5, 2016

Gregadd said:
Wnen I visited Steve he took me pass the house of a guy who had a machine that could remove ticks and pos form a recording. I never learned how his project turned out.

From what I've been told by some vinyl rip pros is there's no free lunch when removing clicks and pops. You are removing part of the music at the same time. Best thing to do is to clean the record really good instead, or deal with the pops. After all they are there listening to vinyl direct.

My best sounding vinyl rips have the pops in the background.

Blizzard · Jan 5, 2016

Hi Amir,

Why can I only see this thread now, and only if I'm going to what's new? It appears I've been locked out of everything, including viewing my own subforum. Yet I can still post on this thread only

amirm · Jan 5, 2016

Blizzard said:
Hi Amir,

Why can I only see this thread now, and only if I'm going to what's new? It appears I've been locked out of everything, including viewing my own subforum. Yet I can still post on this thread only

Hi Mike. It shouldn't be that way. Let me see what is going on.

TBone · Jan 5, 2016

Blizzard said:
From what I've been told by some vinyl rip pros is there's no free lunch when removing clicks and pops. You are removing part of the music at the same time. Best thing to do is to clean the record really good instead, or deal with the pops. After all they are there listening to vinyl direct.

My best sounding vinyl rips have the pops in the background.

I don't use post ripping digital intervention, however I can see certain situations in which de-clicking software (or doing so manually) could be desired ...

one example: I recently found this LP in someone's collection, and purchased it for $1, an original (SD7201) LZ3 pressing. I can only imagine the fisher-price

treatment this precious LP must have faced throughout it's life, but for a buck, it was worth the gamble. Thankfully, it restored fine, however ...

The rip provided is the song SIBLY, that right channel clip is not dirt, but rather groove damage, and if played at a high enough spl it could possibly take out a tweeter ...

... the same track after a deep cleaning cycle, which again brought down the overall noise floor, but more importantly I was fortunately able to manually "fix" the damaged groove using a toothpick. If that wasn't feasible, I'd have required some form of declicking.

BTW, some may wonder why anyone would go to all this trouble just to preserve a very common LP? Well, unlike many later reissues which sound muddy/muffled/constrained (esp the lower frequencies), this early pressing offers a much superior rendition in direct comparison, and these pressings are increasingly hard to find in good condition. They, in my audiophile world, are very much worth preserving.

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