MSB Select DAC II. The way every DAC on the planet should be built.

Blizzard · Dec 1, 2015

Hi Guys,

Some may find the price of this DAC to be a bit high. I see it as a great example of how all DAC's should be constructed. Every section completely modular. In my opinion, any DAC not constructed like this isn't worth buying. Unless you want to replace it every year or 2.

View attachment 23799

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/11/the-select-dac-ii-msb-technologys-90000-da-converter/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ti9JAqzPXI

wisnon · Dec 1, 2015

For the cost of one module, you can buy many new Dacs….just saying.

Maybe building like this means similar cost!

Blizzard · Dec 1, 2015

wisnon said:
For the cost of one module, you can buy many new Dacs….just saying.

Maybe building like this means similar cost!

This same form factor can be used for lower priced DAC's as well. It add's a bit to the manufacturing cost but not much. Way cheaper than replacing the whole DAC every year or 2. the Lampi's are a similar form factor, just not as clean of a design internally.

Believe High Fidelity · Dec 1, 2015

Blizzard said:
This same form factor can be used for lower priced DAC's as well. It add's a bit to the manufacturing cost but not much. Way cheaper than replacing the whole DAC every year or 2. the Lampi's are a similar form factor, just not as clean of a design internally.

Out of curiosity why would you need to replace a whole DAC every 2 years? I can understand the USB module or something that interfaces with drivers that may advance every 1-2 years.

paul79 · Dec 1, 2015

I could see the point of having the full DAC upgradeable, sure! Those R2R DAC's could get more precise, etc....

bonzo75 · Dec 1, 2015

Blizzard said:
This same form factor can be used for lower priced DAC's as well. It add's a bit to the manufacturing cost but not much. Way cheaper than replacing the whole DAC every year or 2. the Lampi's are a similar form factor, just not as clean of a design internally.

Do you know why Alrainbow prefers his Big 7 to his MSB stack? He owns both, btw. And his Big 7 is an early design, has been improved on since

rockitman · Dec 1, 2015

Blizzard said:
Hi Guys,

Some may find the price of this DAC to be a bit high. I see it as a great example of how all DAC's should be constructed. Every section completely modular. In my opinion, any DAC not constructed like this isn't worth buying. Unless you want to replace it every year or 2.

View attachment 23799

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/11/the-select-dac-ii-msb-technologys-90000-da-converter/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ti9JAqzPXI

so when the DAC is near obsolete in a couple years, they can swap out the old modules for new ones at a reasonable cost...ie: upgrade it ?

Johnny Vinyl · Dec 1, 2015

Believe High Fidelity said:
Out of curiosity why would you need to replace a whole DAC every 2 years? I can understand the USB module or something that interfaces with drivers that may advance every 1-2 years.

Because he said so?

Blizzard · Dec 1, 2015

Believe High Fidelity said:
Out of curiosity why would you need to replace a whole DAC every 2 years? I can understand the USB module or something that interfaces with drivers that may advance every 1-2 years.

Well you don't have to, but lots of audiophiles do. There's always something newer and better coming along. Nice to not be bound to a DAC with everything on a single board. As far as USB interfaces go, better ones are coming out all the time. I think XMOS on on the 4th gen in the last 3 years.

When you build a DAC this way, you can have the piece of mind you made a sound investment for years to come.

Joe Whip · Dec 1, 2015

For $90,000 they should send you the upgraded parts for free if upgrades are available within the first few years after purchasing it.

Blizzard · Dec 1, 2015

bonzo75 said:
Do you know why Alrainbow prefers his Big 7 to his MSB stack? He owns both, btw. And his Big 7 is an early design, has been improved on since

That's nice. This thread isn't about subjective taste. It's about building DAC's in a modular form factor for easy upgrading, and prevention against becoming a paperweight within a couple years.

Blizzard · Dec 1, 2015

Joe Whip said:
For $90,000 they should send you the upgraded parts for free if upgrades are available within the first few years after purchasing it.

I think they do?

Blizzard · Dec 1, 2015

rockitman said:
so when the DAC is near obsolete in a couple years, they can swap out the old modules for new ones at a reasonable cost...ie: upgrade it ?

As new technology comes out in any area that could make it better, you can just swap out that particular part rather than the whole thing.

Imagine they made cars that you had to toss out and buy new if you wanted to upgrade the tires? That's how most DAC's are designed these days.

Mike Lavigne · Dec 1, 2015

Blizzard said:
I think they do?

any changes for the first year are done gratis.

after that....you pay the retail price increase for 10 years.

so if the improvements to the next gen version and then that Select DAC II is increased from $90k to $105k, and the 33 femto clock ($17k) gets upgraded to a 28 femto clock for $25k you would pay another $15k + $8k for your upgrade to your modules to stay top-of-line current.

if a better interface module comes along for $7k then you pay that.

edorr · Dec 1, 2015

Isn't part of the fun of this hobby (especially for people that can spend this type of money on gear) the discovery of a new piece of kit that relegates all other gear in a particular product category (e.g. DACs) to the scrap heap? Buying this DAC would take all this fun out of the hobby. I would not touch it with a 10 foot pole if I had 6 figures to spend on a DAC.

Blizzard · Dec 1, 2015

Mike Lavigne said:
any changes for the first year are done gratis.

after that....you pay the retail price increase for 10 years.

so if the improvements to the next gen version and then that Select DAC II is increased from $90k to $105k, and the 33 femto clock ($17k) gets upgraded to a 28 femto clock for $25k you would pay another $15k + $8k for your upgrade to your modules to stay top-of-line current.

Pocket change for guys like you

Anyways much cheaper than dumping the whole thing for 50% off on Audiogon, and buying complete new units with each upgrade.

Blizzard · Dec 1, 2015

edorr said:
Isn't part of the fun of this hobby (especially for people that can spend this type of money on gear) the discovery of a new piece of kit that relegates all other gear in a particular product category (e.g. DACs) to the scrap heap? Buying this DAC would take all this fun out of the hobby. I would not touch it with a 10 foot pole if I had 6 figures to spend on a DAC.

Nobody says your obligated to upgrade if you buy a DAC in a modular form factor. But it will likely help resale value if it's not obsolete when you decide to sell. Unless losing money on resale value is also what you find fun about this hobby.

dallasjustice · Dec 1, 2015

Send me $90,000 and I'll send you a new DAC every year for five years. Each of the DACs I send you will have at least as excellent measured performance as the MSB. In five years, the DAC I send you will likely measure significantly better.

It's foolish to spend crazy money on DACs, IMO.

asiufy · Dec 1, 2015

bonzo75 said:
Do you know why Alrainbow prefers his Big 7 to his MSB stack? He owns both, btw. And his Big 7 is an early design, has been improved on since

I don't know why he prefers his Big 7 to his MSB stack, but I know several other people that prefer the MSB to the Big 7 (or any other DACs), and I know the reasons why. And get this, I don't use each and every opportunity DAC talk comes up to mention this, or tell their reasons why...

Mike Lavigne · Dec 1, 2015

Blizzard said:
Pocket change for guys like you

Anyways much cheaper than dumping the whole thing for 50% off on Audiogon, and buying complete new units with each upgrade.

the end user pays a premium for modularity. just like the end user pays a premium for multiple boxes. both modules and multiple boxes have their issues. and in digital design there can be a small compromise in performance that comes with it as far as noise. the shortest signal path and most efficient circuit design becomes less a priority.

so it is one way to do it at the top of the food chain. but not the only proper way.

MSB Select DAC II. The way every DAC on the planet should be built.

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