A Step Towards Making My Home More Energy Efficient-The Nest

Steve Williams · Dec 1, 2015

with the ever upward spiraling cost of energy it doesn't take much imagination to figure that it is becoming increasingly more expensive to heat and cool our houses. My house has 3 separate HVAC units and my costs seemed to continue to rise. I have been reading about The Nest technology a creation of the minds of two former Apple employees, Matt Rogers and Tony Fadell, who created the iPod and helped with the iPhone. These guys are way ahead of the curve with innovation in Home Control.

It was easy to install the thermostats and for the past week I have been watching each thermostat learn our home living comfort conditions and setting the thermostat to where it feels we are not only comfortable but also energy efficient. Apparently in the first two weeks most of the automatic changes take place and from then on it is quite smooth. The beauty of The Nest is that I can control the thermostat(s) by my iPhone rom anywhere in the world. Having been away on vacation I set the thermostats at the airport after I landed and after a week away the house was perfect when we arrived home

The Nest technology has now spread to a Nest home surveillance camera as well as a Nest Smoke and CO alarm. Also from what I gather the Nest Technology is spreading to 3rd party manufacturers where they can design technology that works within the Nest framework. I am told that there is now a company that makes Nest Air vents that can be programmed to close in rooms that are not being used for the purpose of creating automated zone heating and cooling. Of note is that this latter technology was brought to Shark Tank by some inventors and the idea was instantly funded by one of the Sharks

I haven't gotten my first heating bill since I installed the Nest thermostats but I can see how it learns and changes environmental conditions to keep things comfortable and energy efficient

www.nest.com

http://www.technologyreview.com/fea...sts-control-freaks-reinvented-the-thermostat/

definitely recommended and very affordable (each Thermostat is $250)

zztop7 · Dec 1, 2015

Toasty with a dozen cranking Lamm ML3s.

Top R38 batts layed perpendicualar to bottom R38 batts in the attic.

Research conducted at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory (and corroborated at the University of Illinois) confirming that loose-fill fiberglass insulation loses as much as >>> 50% <<< of its effectiveness in extremely cold temperatures (10deg.F and -18deg.F). Heat loss through low-density, loose-fill fiberglass attic insulation increased significantly as the temperature differential grew between the heated space and the attic in the tests. Air densities changed with the temperature differences. As warmer air from the heated space below reached the top of the insulation, the air cooled, became more dense, and fell back into the insulation.

Batts also lose there effectiveness the lower the temperature.

There is another reason also, but the post will get too long.

Closed cell spray urethane foam is Great if you do not have any utilities in the space that will possibly need future work [electric lines in conduit would not always be fine due to heat gain].

zz.

I hope the above is not considered off-topic. Different thermostats are great, but if the heating or cooling is leaving the structure, a ton is lost.

Wonner Naus · Dec 1, 2015

Thanks Steve.

Will definitely check this out.

WN

Steve Williams · Dec 1, 2015

They are very easy to install BUT be careful with the wires as the first time we installed the Nest I must have brushed the red wire up against the blue wire and blew a fuse on the furnace so we had to get up into the attic to fix that.. Short of that the Nest can be installed in under 15 minutes.

amirm · Dec 1, 2015

Didn't know that zz but of course it makes sense. The higher the temp difference the higher the convection flow and what worked before, may not be as effective now.

GaryProtein · Dec 1, 2015

Do the learning or programmable thermostats really save money? How much?

Isn't it annoying when your activities don't follow what the thermostats have learned?

Steve Williams · Dec 1, 2015

I haven't got my bill yet so its too soon to tell

As far as its ability to learn you can see it changing daily as it senses motion as well as heating habits. Apparently the first few weeks is when the biggest changes are seen

ack · Dec 1, 2015

Thanks, I have to check this out. I assume it asks you to set the temperature where you want it throughout the day?

GaryProtein · Dec 1, 2015

Steve Williams said:
I haven't got my bill yet so its too soon to tell

As far as its ability to learn you can see it changing daily as it senses motion as well as heating habits. Apparently the first few weeks is when the biggest changes are seen

Do these thermostats keep a given temperature because it senses you in the room? That sounds like a great feature, but what you save would be related to how specific or localized the heating or cooling zone is. If the zone is large and it maintains a temperature because it senses a person in a given room, but there are a few rooms on the zone, that means unoccupied rooms may be heated or cooled reducing the potential savings.

Steve Williams · Dec 1, 2015

The auto motion sensor can be disabled.

GaryProtein · Dec 1, 2015

Steve Williams said:
The auto motion sensor can be disabled.

So how does it know if there is a person there and what temperature to maintain?

If you simply set a desired temperature, but no one is in the room, you save less.

The Nest sounds like the ideal thermostat for a house where every room is its own heating and cooling zone for greatest conservation savings, although there will be a LARGE up front construction cost for a house like that.

You could end up with a big house like one of my friends (who is a plumbing contractor) with 22 hot water heating zones and eight air conditioning zones! (After we became friends, I knew I was in the wrong business!)

treitz3 · Dec 1, 2015

Cool thread, Steve. I am also in the market for a thermostat in that price range. I have been eyeing http://www.homedepot.com/p/Honeywell-Wi-Fi-Smart-Thermostat-RTH9580WF/203926327 that also doubles as a quick glace basic outdoor weather station but the Nest is also on the radar. I will definitely be watching this thread for progress.

When we moved in, the house came with the original thermostat which was the old dual mercury type thermostat. While it worked, it seemed as if the wife and I were constantly adjusting it up or down a degree or two. We had a leftover Honeywell thermostat (El-Cheapo builder grade) from a project we worked on, so I went ahead and installed it. Low and behold, this has become a "set it and forget it" thermostat. I was so impressed with the performance of the El Cheapo, it made me wonder and start looking at other thermostats, such as the Nest and the Honeywell. I just ran across another one that caught my interest at Lowe's the other day but did not have the time to take a closer look at it.

BTW, whenever anyone goes to change out a thermostat ALWAYS kill the power at the circuit breaker for the HVAC unit! I have known folks who tried to install a thermostat themselves without killing the power and 7 grand later, the HVAC was back up and running. You have the potential to blow boards and really create havoc to an HVAC system if the right wires short. Especially on older systems that do not have parts readily available or available at all. Please, those that are reading this, keep this in mind.

Tom

amirm · Dec 1, 2015

GaryProtein said:
So how does it know if there is a person there and what temperature to maintain?

The nest is a learning thermostat. It learns what temps you set it to and when there are people waking by it. Say you always manually set the temp two degrees lower in the morning before everyone goes to work/school. It can learn that and do that automatically. It can also detect occupancy by who walks by it and turn down the temp by itself. That is how it can tell "if there is a person there." Of course if you never walk by it but still are in the house, it can misjudge the situation and lower the temp incorrectly. It does not have a proper occupancy sensor that listens in addition to detecting motion.

I am not too fond of such islands of automation. I like to have an integrated system such that when you arm your security, the temps go down knowing you are out. Lights then get turned down/off, electronics powered down, shades closed, etc. It costs a lot more money but you get a more comfortable system.

wgscott · Jan 15, 2016

I have a programmed thermostat that turns the heat down to 59 F during the night and during daytime when I am not there. (We live in hills in Central Coastal CA, so this isn't extreme), so it only comes on for an hour in the morning and a few hours in the evening. The dog sleeps and spends a lot of time directly underneath it, so this could complicate motion detection. Would we benefit in any way from having this? I suspect the answer is no, but wonder if I am overlooking something. I do like the idea.

zztop7 · Jan 15, 2016

Frozen pipes equals destroyed home

So if you leave your home for a few days & your pipes freeze & break, who pays for the damage?

"A Nest software update in December came with a hidden surprise: a bug that drains the thermostat's battery and ultimately deactivates the device. Users were caught by surprise, and in the case of The New York Times writer Nick Bilton, he woke up to a cold home when his Nest switched off in the middle of the night. The Google-owned company's co-founder, Matt Rogers, confirmed to NYT that the cause was a software glitch that didn't manifest itself until January. The complaints posted on Twitter and on Nest's own forum support that statement."

zz.

asiufy · Jan 15, 2016

Ah, software... Always software...

treitz3 · Jan 15, 2016

Hi, Steve. Have you had enough time to see any difference or do you have any comments as to the pros or cons yet?

Tom

Steve Williams · Jan 15, 2016

I love it Tom. I haven't set it in weeks. It comes on for 2 hours in the morning and perhaps the same in the evening but the house is comfortable. For the price I would give it a shot.

R Johnson · Jan 16, 2016

Here's a link to the NYT story: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/14/fashion/nest-thermostat-glitch-battery-dies-software-freeze.html

GaryProtein · Jan 16, 2016

After reading that article, I am even more happy with my fully manual mercury probe AccuStat thermostats.

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