What speakers have most horn-like dynamics?

spiritofmusic · Dec 18, 2015

rblnr said:
Horns are horns. But as far a 'conventional' designs go, I think big ATCs are as unrestrained dynamically as it gets. Not surprising that they're primarily a pro market company; in that market dynamic compression is a major no-no. They need more power than horns, but don't compress when it's there. I think relative lack of compression via conventional designs has distinguished Wilson for many years vs. the pack.

As someone who values dynamics very highly -- live blues performances are my benchmark -- I always thought I'd own horns at some point, and even tried to -- but wound up w/Scaena line arrays that sound dynamically unrestrained at all volume levels to me.

Shouldn't you be putting a "LOL" after your comment about dynamic compresion being a major no no in the pro market?
I mean, haven't you heard all the brickwalling/hot mastering of the last two decades. Dynamic compression is EXACTLY what 90% of the pro market have been advocating, and practicing, over this period.
I'll keep my thoughts on ATC to myself.

spiritofmusic · Dec 18, 2015

JackD201 said:
Well there is only one pair of 111s in the world and it will remain the only pair. It is a one off. I guess that makes it the best 111 by default, yes? LOL. Oh and they aren't mine. I have 11s not 111s. Now as much as I love my own being perfect for my room which was rebuilt acoustically for their eventual coming by removing the bass lift I had when I had 9s, the 111s are a different animal. It is a project where the designer was given free reign to do everything he'd ever wanted to do. You might think this is a cool thing but there's a lot of pressure when somebody puts that kind of faith in you. I surely haven't heard everything like say the Magico Ultimate (which had a similar back story), Gary's Dragons (Gary's realization of his own dreams as a designer), the LA, Tessie, the upcoming WAMM or others. Even if I had, I would like to make it clear that I in no way make any declarations of what is the best. I am from the camp that believes the only best is what an individual finds best for his needs. In my mind all gear are simply tools to accomplish an objective. In this case the objective is a natural presentation that retains its composure past the user's thresholds. This is IMO what separates simply plunking down and enjoying music from listening being an experience in itself. There's something to be said about being so worry free that any thought about the gear or fiddling with any of it is sucked out the HVAC when the music starts playing. Mind you, there is settling in to be had and optimization to be done over time. The scary part is jaded as I am, right now, I don't know how or where it can be improved. That said these are not magic speakers that make everything sound good. Some requested tracks had me reaching for some scotch because there were no ear plugs to be found. What the hell is up with music from the 80's being recorded so badly anyway? Oh yeah, the age of the dominance of cassette tape. No highs no lows, perfect for B_SE. Grrrrrrrr.

Ok arrest me now.

Jack, no arrest needed. In fact you have the "Freedom Of The A'fool City" medal. I haven't seen anyone be so gracious about what they consider is a SOTA component in their system.
Ron Resnick who is in charge of "Introspection And Hyperbole Control" would truly be proud of you

.
Btw Jack, 30 months on, and I remain giddy w/how great the Eera Tentation cdp remains. One of my most succesful ventures in audio. I will be demoing a Lampi Golden Gate w/custom server soon, but I'm sure the little Eera will hold her head up high. How are you finding DSD etc/via server, sounds compared to deeply disregarded RBCD on your Autographe.

Detlof · Dec 18, 2015

DaveC said:
True, but the lack of impact removes them from consideration, imo... if there's no impact to go along with the dynamics are there really dynamics?

True enough in my opinion. I've owned stators for decades, however the Sound Labs did have punch. Except for the a-capellas, I have no listening experience with horns at all. i wonder how the DDD.drivers of my German Physiks Emperor would do here. They are a much further refinement of the Walsh drivers of yore. All I can say is, that to my ears solo piano with huge dynamic swings sounds closer to the real thing than amything I had heard before. That was the reason I bought them. Have not heard the biggest a- Capellas however.

bonzo75 · Dec 18, 2015

DaveC said:
True, but the lack of impact removes them from consideration, imo... if there's no impact to go along with the dynamics are there really dynamics?

There is lack of impact with Apogee full ranges and Trios with bass horns?

Oh sorry - you were probably referring to stats. Yes I agree.

bonzo75 · Dec 18, 2015

Detlof said:
True enough in my opinion. I've owned stators for decades, however the Sound Labs did have punch. Except for the a-capellas, I have no listening experience with horns at all. i wonder how the DDD.drivers of my German Physiks Emperor would do here. They are a much further refinement of the Walsh drivers of yore. All I can say is, that to my ears solo piano with huge dynamic swings sounds closer to the real thing than amything I had heard before. That was the reason I bought them. Have not heard the biggest a- Capellas however.

Detlof, if you like Piano, and you liked stat panels (though I don't like stats so much on Piano), please have a listen to the Analysis Audio (Omega or Amphitryon). That had the best piano I heard, with NAT amplification. They are ribbon magnetostats. With Acapellas lower models, there is a constraint due to having a different driver for the lower range.

rblnr · Dec 18, 2015

spiritofmusic said:
Shouldn't you be putting a "LOL" after your comment about dynamic compresion being a major no no in the pro market?
I mean, haven't you heard all the brickwalling/hot mastering of the last two decades. Dynamic compression is EXACTLY what 90% of the pro market have been advocating, and practicing, over this period.
I'll keep my thoughts on ATC to myself.

I will be polite: you're talking about the mastering (which goes back much further than two decades -- I think it was Phil Spector who made the comment 'compression is rock and roll' sometime in the late 70s) and I'm talking about the hardware playback in live venues and the like. These are entirely different things obviously

And since you brought it up anyway, share your thoughts on ATCs as per the topic -- the forum relies on honest debate.

Detlof · Dec 18, 2015

bonzo75 said:
Detlof, if you like Piano, and you liked stat panels (though I don't like stats so much on Piano), please have a listen to the Analysis Audio (Omega or Amphitryon). That had the best piano I heard, with NAT amplification. They are ribbon magnetostats. With Acapellas lower models, there is a constraint due to having a different driver for the lower range.

Thanks Bonzo. No chance to hear anything of the sort where I live. I would have to travel, but since I am content with what I have, I'd rather listen to music.:b

Sal1950 · Jan 28, 2016

ddk said:
HORNS! None of these speakers are even close to a good horn design.

david

PS. Not saying that they're bad just very different from horn speakers.

+1
After a 33 year love affair with a pair of Klipsch LaScala's with drivers and crossovers kept fully updated and driven for the last 20 by VTL monoblocks, nothing in a non-horn system has ever compared for dynamics. Had to sell it all to make room in my greatly downsized retirement digs but getting by with a set of Hsu Research horn satellites and dual subwoofers.. Not even close but will get me thru my late years. LOL

Amir · May 11, 2022

I think big wilsons like WAMM/Alexandria are more dynamic than other dynamic driver loudspeakers but horns are more dynamic.
WAMM needs so much power than horns and the question is can high power amplifier match low power amplifiers power quality?

Alrainbow · May 11, 2022

I like two kinds of speakers
planners and horns
line source for planners
its not dynamics I think it’s the ability of a speaker to be able to start and stop
I think this is related to mass not just how much power is needed
a horn has little mass but can quickly become over loaded.
a line source type planner that has many drivers like Mine get close but still can’t get the finer details that pure speed can deliver
stats can get even closer
due to mass
The definition of dynamics needs to be defined better. it’s not just an explosion it’s also the decay after the explosion with how fast the explosion can happen
few get me to hear this.
I heard full size avante guard they did it right
but need a big room
my line source gates close but leaves some on the table
pure ribbons get closer then planners I think
alyvox has this kind of speed to me.
this topic is also what we like and might vary plenty in views
the Aries cerate at axpona has the speed to me. While the room was too small it did have an encredible sense of reality to me. and they are a complex hybrid
a horn
a ribbon dipole
and open baffle woofers
but if I closed my eyes it was music at levels of details with crazy dynamics to me.

caesar · May 24, 2022

Thanks for reviving this thread. Based on my experiences and preferences, I would say MBL Extremes have about 80 percent dynamics of super - effiicient horns , like the 109 db Avantgardes, with 4 large 9011 amps. They are about 70 percent of top horns , with their smaller amps.

Popular hifi audiophile speakers , like recent Wilsons models , have "dynamics". But these "dynamics" stick out as part of the analysis of the recording , not part of the musical whole.

Don Reid · Jun 18, 2022

In my experience the best dynamics of all are provided by fully horn loaded systems with horn bass.

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What speakers have most horn-like dynamics?

spiritofmusic

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