Can an otherwise good speaker cable be ruined by the connector?

cjf

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Nov 19, 2012
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So I've recently found myself in need to purchase a slightly longer set of speaker cables to avoid the need to purchase a far more expensive power cord. I'm a DIY type of guy for the most part and when ever possible. During my search for a speaker cable (bulk) I found that there is an obsene number of Spade connectors on the market to chose from ranging in price from cheap to ridiculous.

As an example, I am almost 95% sure that I will be using Mogami 3103 as the cable itself based on its happy medium specs in terms of capacitance,resistance, inductance per foot compared to other brands who actually have the balls to list the specs of their wares. There are a few companies out there who actually sell this wire Pre- Terminated but I have found that there seems to be some short cuts being made in this part of the cable. By this I mean, the cable itself may appear to look ideal in terms of its specs but the Spade connector itself used to terminate said cable is made of something less then "pure copper". The common theme seems to be "copper alloy" with either Gold or Rodium plating on top of that.

So my question is this, can an otherwise excellent cable be ruined by a sub-par termination medium and or termination technique (ie.. Soldering, cold welding, set screw..etc)?

For anyone who has looked into these aftermarket Spade connectors I'm sure you saw that some of these Spades cost upwards of $100 a piece (ie..WBT's new offering).

Another side question would be, is it considered ideal to avoid soldering at all costs? Can a "set screw" actually be that much better? What about the use of "Crimp Sleeves", are they considered required these days in order to achieve a uniform dispersion of wire at the termination point?


Thanks for your thoughts on this matter
 

Hew

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None of those connectors will beat the bare wire so why bother using one?
 

treitz3

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Hello, cjf and good evening to you. Your post asks a lot of opened ended questions that is sure to fire up some debate.....and a lot of it.

To answer your thread title question? No and yes. No because most folks on a certain level of higher fidelity will not notice any difference given their rig or their experience. Yes because at a certain level, things are different and each and every component within the chain has the potential to be an attribute or a deficiency. This includes the connections of a system.

With that said in layman's terms? Not really. The only exception would be if the connection was faulty and either shorted the system or provided no signal due to an open.

The side questions I will leave to the membership at large to discuss in a friendly manner. Thanks for your inquiry and have a good evening as well as a Happy Thanksgiving.

Tom
 

jfrech

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I bet the termination method (soldering method and quality, crimping, cold pressed weld) is likely as more maybe more important than the actual connector.
 

GaryProtein

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I bet the termination method (soldering method and quality, crimping, cold pressed weld) is likely as more maybe more important than the actual connector.

I hear people talking about this all the time related to dental implant screws and crown retention on the implant abutment.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A COLD [PRESSED] WELD in any metal except 24K (.999) gold that has been suitably cleaned and decontaminated.

.999 gold is unique in this trait as pieces will stick to themselves (cohesion) at room temperature and become ONE inseparable piece. This is NOT the case with merely crimping something tightly so it is not easily pulled apart as with cable and connectors.

I agree that the method of attachment and metals used in the cable and spade, banana or other plugs play a role in the quality of the termination.

To gild the lily, the best connection is with a copper cable crimped and laser welded (no solder) to a silver/palladium alloy spade as they both melt within 100 degF of each other. This obviously requires specialized equipment to perform.
 

Speedskater

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While 'cold welding' can apply to several different events like:


But in our case we are talking about cold pressure welding of copper [wire] and most other nonferrous metals.

Cold pressure welding is restricted to nonferrous materials or, at best, soft iron that has no carbon content. Most nonferrous metals can be cold welded, and while copper and aluminium are the most common, various alloys such as Aldrey, Triple E, Constantan, 70/30 brass, zinc, silver and silver alloys, nickel, gold and many others have good cold weldability. Plated wires, including tinned copper, silver plated and nickel-plated, can all be welded to themselves or to plain copper.
 

GaryProtein

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^^^^ Those create tight contact between the metals, but are not true one-piece fusions.

With gold, a light touch is all that is needed to form one inseparable piece from two or more pieces--true cold welding.

See the cold welding link you got the above links from and read the nanoscale portion of the article. That is the type of TRUE cold welding I am referring to. There is more to cold welding of gold than in that brief article. Cold welding of gold also occurs on bigger scales than that article mentions.
 

beaur

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Oct 12, 2011
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This is not true. There are a few companies out there that base their business on the principle of cold welding. It's been over 20 years since I used one but they definitely work. Now as a practical matter in audio, cold welds wouldn't do much except maybe lengthen wire but I am sure some innovative person out there can/has figured out a use.

I hear people talking about this all the time related to dental implant screws and crown retention on the implant abutment.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A COLD [PRESSED] WELD in any metal except 24K (.999) gold that has been suitably cleaned and decontaminated.
 

microstrip

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None of those connectors will beat the bare wire so why bother using one?

Although theoretically ideal, most of the time bare wire is not adequate in practice to speaker or amplifier connections, so we have to use connectors. Although avoiding solder seems advisable (it adds another suspicious metal interface), connectors using pressure have the problem that they have to be re-tightened from time to time.

The quality of the work and components for the finishing is the most critical part. Some solders have de-oxidizing fluxes that penetrate by capillarity along the cable during the soldering and in the long term oxidize the surface of the wires along some inches. Multi strand cable "repacks" when manipulated and some pressure connectors can become loose. In the end it is a case by case analysis to choose the less of the evils. Although a few cable manufacturers choose fancy and good looking expensive connectors that are not adequate to their cables, most of them terminate their cables properly.
 

DaveC

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A good connector is better than bare wire, as bare wire in a typical binding post is not so ideal a connection, it'll corrode and loosen over time and can't make the same kind of contact a spade can make. Bare wire being better is a myth.

Cold-welding for speaker cables is almost always simply a hydraulic crimp, it works great but I'm not sure it's really any better than a set-screw, which is what I prefer. It's simple, easy and sounds great, better than soldering imo.

That said, my favorite value-oriented connector is Furutech FP-201 spades, then FT-211 and CF-211 for higher end choices. WBTs are great too but if you compare a Furutech CF spade vs a WBT side by side the Furutech has far nicer construction and the difference in sound quality is not that significant.
 
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DaveC

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Although theoretically ideal, most of the time bare wire is not adequate in practice to speaker or amplifier connections, so we have to use connectors. Although avoiding solder seems advisable (it adds another suspicious metal interface), connectors using pressure have the problem that they have to be re-tightened from time to time.

The quality of the work and components for the finishing is the most critical part. Some solders have de-oxidizing fluxes that penetrate by capillarity along the cable during the soldering and in the long term oxidize the surface of the wires along some inches. Multi strand cable "repacks" when manipulated and some pressure connectors can become loose. In the end it is a case by case analysis to choose the less of the evils. Although a few cable manufacturers choose fancy and good looking expensive connectors that are not adequate to their cables, most of them terminate their cables properly.

If your solder is running down the wire "some inches" you're doing it wrong. All fluxes will have capillary action in the right setting but there should not be enough heat applied to allow the solder to flow outside of the area it's being applied to.

Stranded wire... actually any wire... will loosen up in pressure connections but if done right will remain tight for the long haul. Any set screw or clamp connection is best if it's torqued several times with some time between torquings, but even that is not strictly required as electricians almost never do this when they are wiring up a building, and if they do it right receptacles and switches will not have loose wires in them years later.
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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I just went through extensive testing of spade and banana terminations, basically they all have some kind of effect on the sound. Even the same copper spade can sound different raw, gold or silver plated.

david
 

DaveC

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I just went through extensive testing of spade and banana terminations, basically they all have some kind of effect on the sound. Even the same copper spade can sound different raw, gold or silver plated.

david

Yup, platings make a big difference. Interconnect cable performance is influenced by the plugs far more than speaker cables are by their spades/bananas. It's pretty hard to beat Furutech's rhodium plated copper or WBT's platinum plated silver imo. I would not consider raw copper or silver platings, they can corrode. Gold plating is also a bit delicate on spades, rhodium holds up better.

Best? I'd give that to Furutech's CF line. Incredible construction quality and the resonant quality of the stainless/carbon fiber bodies does make a difference. The FT-211/212 are the same plugs with a non-resonant plastic body instead of stainless/carbon for 1/4 the price.
 

ddk

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Yup, platings make a big difference. Interconnect cable performance is influenced by the plugs far more than speaker cables are by their spades/bananas. It's pretty hard to beat Furutech's rhodium plated copper or WBT's platinum plated silver imo. I would not consider raw copper or silver platings, they can corrode. Gold plating is also a bit delicate on spades, rhodium holds up better.
Best? I'd give that to Furutech's CF line. Incredible construction quality and the resonant quality of the stainless/carbon fiber bodies does make a difference. The FT-211/212 are the same plugs with a non-resonant plastic body instead of stainless/carbon for 1/4 the price.

Haven't tried the Furutech's yet, will give them a try too, thanks!

david
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Haven't tried the Furutech's yet, will give them a try too, thanks!

david

I have Furutech Rhodium in my system (11 in all). Recently there have been comments that the top end on the Furutech gold is better than the rhodium if used on the amps. I switched my back end Furutech Rhodium to the Gold version. I would concur with the recommendations. I still use Rhodium in the 9 other outlets
 

ddk

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I have Furutech Rhodium in my system (11 in all). Recently there have been comments that the top end on the Furutech gold is better than the rhodium if used on the amps. I switched my back end Furutech Rhodium to the Gold version. I would concur with the recommendations. I still use Rhodium in the 9 other outlets

You're talking about the outlets Steve, right? DaveC was recommending the spades.

david
 

DaveC

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I have Furutech Rhodium in my system (11 in all). Recently there have been comments that the top end on the Furutech gold is better than the rhodium if used on the amps. I switched my back end Furutech Rhodium to the Gold version. I would concur with the recommendations. I still use Rhodium in the 9 other outlets

Yes, for speaker cables I often use gold at the amp end and rhodium at the speaker end. We're getting down to pretty subtle differences here though ;)

The best Furutech rhodium connectors are the GTX AC receptacles and FI-50 AC connectors, here they are head and shoulders better than any other option, imo. I could see using the GTX gold in some places but it's not as clear and accurate as the rhodium plated GTX.
 

microstrip

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If your solder is running down the wire "some inches" you're doing it wrong. All fluxes will have capillary action in the right setting but there should not be enough heat applied to allow the solder to flow outside of the area it's being applied to.

Stranded wire... actually any wire... will loosen up in pressure connections but if done right will remain tight for the long haul. Any set screw or clamp connection is best if it's torqued several times with some time between torquings, but even that is not strictly required as electricians almost never do this when they are wiring up a building, and if they do it right receptacles and switches will not have loose wires in them years later.

I am not addressing the solder itself but the core flux reducing agent, that melts at much lower temperatures than the solder - this flux can flow in the cables backwards even if you are doing it correctly. It is one of the reasons why you should use the correct solder.

Some better connectors have separate points for mechanical and electrical purposes - a good feature. BTW, I suspect that our houses electrical wiring would risk becoming loose if they were subjected to the typical manipulations of audio cables in the hands of unsteady audiophiles, particularly when the systems are not easily accessible. Fortunately no one ever tried to borrow my house wiring! ;)
 

Don Hills

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Jun 20, 2013
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It looks like time for my standard warning: Do not tin (apply solder to) a wire end which will be pressure terminated (crimp or screw terminal). The solder will cold flow over time and the connection will loosen.
 

cjf

Well-Known Member
Nov 19, 2012
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I saw a few mentions of the Furutech brand connectors. I was leaning heavily towards the FT-211 Rhodium Spades for my purpose but the only drawback I see is that they are designed for 5/16" binding posts. Personally I have never come across a 5/16" binding post on either an Amp or a Speaker so I'm a bit concerned that they may have a sloppy fit on a 1/4" post.

While we are on the topic of connectors, what is the general consensus on using a Banana verses a Spade for the speaker side connection? I've read some audiophile opinions that say a Banana is a compromised connection but I've never had an issue with them and tend to prefer them on the speaker end. I can't say I've seen any hard evidence that would support why a Banana would be considered less ideal.

Thoughts?

Thanks
 

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