This thread is about the sound of live music, describing what is heard from an audiophile perception and how it compares to reproduction at home. I would encourage others to also share their impressions of live sound as well. Let me start with a recent experience.
Usually my live concert diet consists of classical and classical avantgarde, but a few days ago, after a long time, I went to a jazz concert again. The afternoon concert in the Boston area, more specifically in Cambridge, Mass., was in memoriam for local guitarist Garrison Fewell who had passed away recently. It was a great concert. After two or three more 'normal' pieces the concert quickly went 'far out' into avantgarde territory, often to exhilarating effect. As I had already expected from what I heard on a CD of Garrison Fewell, the musicianship of the local players was through the roof, just incredible (long live Boston!). At one point there was a 'duel' between two trumpets that was quite something. At the end I got to talk with some of the musicians which was enjoyable too.
Now a few impressions on the sound. Please keep in mind that these are my personal impressions; if you would have heard the same thing you might disagree on some of my findings -- perception is everything.
At first I sat about 20-25 feet away from most of the performers, a bit further from the percussionist. That was in row 4 or 5 while I might instinctively have preferred to sit closer, but I had already anticipated that it could become very loud, and this was the first line of defense for my ears (the second one was further back, see below). The hall was small, of perhaps 80 x 60 x 30 feet dimensions. The only amplified instrument was guitar, with the amplification on its strings (no mike), and in a few pieces a cello, but that instrument did not play with full band.
Acoustic bass: I hadn't heard plucked stand-up bass live in years, but my recollection was right that it sounded a bit 'fat', or 'resonant'. It's just not a super-fast and tight sound in the low frequencies (although very clean in its own way), and at home I don't mind it having a tiny bit of overhang at my subwoofer setting, an overhang that I also hear live (electric bass tends to sound 'faster' in my perception, and my system is capable of very fast bass on rock music, and in general on drums). On the other hand, as others also have observed, stand-up bass in a live situation is not that prominent in the overall contribution to the sound of a band; perhaps on recordings it's simply mixed more to the foreground, but I just don't think turning down the bass frequencies 'solves the problem', because it somewhat diminishes the true character of the instrument's sound.
Drums and percussion: I knew that a rock drum kit has enormous impact, but I was surprised to hear a lot of the same impact from the 'lighter' jazz drums. Every beat on those drums, especially snare drums, just had this enormous amount of energy, and the sound had a ton of transient 'speed'. None of the systems I have heard, including mine, comes close to reproducing this impact. I was quite surprised how dull the cymbals sounded in this jazz percussion kit; I had thought they would have more sparkle, sheen and air (another drum kit by another percussionist also playing in the concert had a bit brighter cymbal sounds, but not by a lot). I had suspected that my system underplayed the timbre of jazz cymbals somewhat, but that seems not to be the case. On the other hand, some of the sounds from small-sized hi-hats were quite sharp and startling. Also here my system seems more correct than I thought; I had had the impression that in this case it overplayed the timbre on these sounds a bit towards the 'hot' side (I have a few of them on one of the recent avantgarde jazz CDs), but I heard very similar sounds live in this concert.
Brass: Trurnpet sound had a good amount of air, with a palpable, propulsive physicality to the sound on transients as thus far I had not heard yet on any system. Interestingly, while tenor sax also sounded full, there was no air to the sound, even though on other occasions live I did hear it having air. The greater air on vinyl over digital corresponds better to my previous live experiences of the instrument, just recently when walking by a tenor sax playing on the street at Halloween in Salem, Massachusetts. Yet after the experience in this concert I am starting to wonder if perhaps the lack of air in the sound that I hear even on my best CD in terms of saxophone sound (an avantgarde jazz CD that I bought recently) is simply a reflection of how the instrument sounded in the studio. Trumpet often does have quite a bit of air on my digital replay.
There was a good amount of hardness especially to trumpet sound, but that hardness was initially very 'open', not congested. Yet once the band played really loud, the sound became just plain distorted almost like a cheap transistor radio; one major reason may have been that the small hall could not take it anymore, it was overloaded by the sound pressure. And yes, this sound might have been perceived as 'congested'. The distortions reminded me of my concert experience in Austria in May, when I sat quite close to a large orchestra and at the loudest peaks the sound also became distorted, even though on a less extreme level and in a less 'congested' manner. At a recent event at Goodwin's where Linn demonstrated digital room correction I had mentioned the distortions to the sales manager from Linn, who also had recording experience, and he said that the air pressure in a trumpet is so high that it basically 'shreds' the sound waves. He said, try standing 5 feet away from the instrument! On the flip side of the coin, I have also heard very smooth brass, but only in a very smooth sounding venue and from a distance.
As the ensemble became bigger during the course of the concert, I switched seating from about 20 feet distance from the musicians to about double that, 40 feet, at a few rows further back in the middle of the hall, in order to protect my ears. Yet even then the sound became really loud. I didn't have my SPL meter with me, but I would estimate that 100 dB was reached routinely, and that during the really loud passages levels of ca. 110 dB must not have been rare. I would not be surprised if at the loudest moments 110 dB were even surpassed (it seemed even louder than at the greatest climaxes of the large orchestra up close in Austria, but obviously there the hall was just much larger). I did not have ringing in my ears, however, just a tiny bit of pressure in my ears noticeable when I came back into the quiet of my home (after my dog's brief barking had subsided, that is). I did not listen to music for the rest of the evening -- I came back early since it was an afternoon concert -- because I had already spent all the allotted duration of high-level sound exposure, and more, for the day.
The experience has confirmed to me once more that midrange hardness is a feature of many live situations, and that if you hear it on a system, it may not be a sign of weakness, but rather a simple reflection of how it really sounds. Given the distortions that I heard, as to a lesser extent in Austria and on other occasions, the experience also has emphasized my already existing suspicion that the hunt for 'clean' sound may not necessarily always be the most desirable thing. Yes, a string quartet should sound clean on a system, except perhaps on a close-up recording with the roughest bowing in dissonant passages, but the idea that even brass should always sound 'clean' may not be realistic.
***
In terms of impact, I discovered that it's also a matter of sheer sound volume. Above I had written: "Trurnpet sound had a good amount of air, with a palpable, propulsive physicality to the sound on transients as thus far I had not heard yet on any system." Well, one day after the concert I turned up the volume on just unmuted trumpet (with some light accompaniment by stand-up bass and drums) much higher than at the level I normally listen, to a level close to the concert (I think then it was even louder). The music played with peaks of 96 dBA, and it turns out that at this volume level my system could reproduce quite a bit of that sheer propulsion of sound in the trumpet, even though not completely so. It also can reproduce the fullness of trumpet sound to a very high degree. I never had expected that. Yet at that setting the system would play well above 100 dBA with full band. Even if my the system could safely play at that level, which it cannot, I would not want to expose my ears to that kind of sound pressure outside of a live concert. After all, I still intend to enjoy good sound also when I am 80 and beyond, if I live to that age. I usually listen at 85-90 dBA, with some peaks, mostly on orchestral material, at 95 dBA (max. 97 dBA), following NIOSH recommendations of maximum exposure per day and in absolute terms. That already seems to be pretty loud in many cases; on several occasions people listening to my system have asked me to turn down the volume.
Usually my live concert diet consists of classical and classical avantgarde, but a few days ago, after a long time, I went to a jazz concert again. The afternoon concert in the Boston area, more specifically in Cambridge, Mass., was in memoriam for local guitarist Garrison Fewell who had passed away recently. It was a great concert. After two or three more 'normal' pieces the concert quickly went 'far out' into avantgarde territory, often to exhilarating effect. As I had already expected from what I heard on a CD of Garrison Fewell, the musicianship of the local players was through the roof, just incredible (long live Boston!). At one point there was a 'duel' between two trumpets that was quite something. At the end I got to talk with some of the musicians which was enjoyable too.
Now a few impressions on the sound. Please keep in mind that these are my personal impressions; if you would have heard the same thing you might disagree on some of my findings -- perception is everything.
At first I sat about 20-25 feet away from most of the performers, a bit further from the percussionist. That was in row 4 or 5 while I might instinctively have preferred to sit closer, but I had already anticipated that it could become very loud, and this was the first line of defense for my ears (the second one was further back, see below). The hall was small, of perhaps 80 x 60 x 30 feet dimensions. The only amplified instrument was guitar, with the amplification on its strings (no mike), and in a few pieces a cello, but that instrument did not play with full band.
Acoustic bass: I hadn't heard plucked stand-up bass live in years, but my recollection was right that it sounded a bit 'fat', or 'resonant'. It's just not a super-fast and tight sound in the low frequencies (although very clean in its own way), and at home I don't mind it having a tiny bit of overhang at my subwoofer setting, an overhang that I also hear live (electric bass tends to sound 'faster' in my perception, and my system is capable of very fast bass on rock music, and in general on drums). On the other hand, as others also have observed, stand-up bass in a live situation is not that prominent in the overall contribution to the sound of a band; perhaps on recordings it's simply mixed more to the foreground, but I just don't think turning down the bass frequencies 'solves the problem', because it somewhat diminishes the true character of the instrument's sound.
Drums and percussion: I knew that a rock drum kit has enormous impact, but I was surprised to hear a lot of the same impact from the 'lighter' jazz drums. Every beat on those drums, especially snare drums, just had this enormous amount of energy, and the sound had a ton of transient 'speed'. None of the systems I have heard, including mine, comes close to reproducing this impact. I was quite surprised how dull the cymbals sounded in this jazz percussion kit; I had thought they would have more sparkle, sheen and air (another drum kit by another percussionist also playing in the concert had a bit brighter cymbal sounds, but not by a lot). I had suspected that my system underplayed the timbre of jazz cymbals somewhat, but that seems not to be the case. On the other hand, some of the sounds from small-sized hi-hats were quite sharp and startling. Also here my system seems more correct than I thought; I had had the impression that in this case it overplayed the timbre on these sounds a bit towards the 'hot' side (I have a few of them on one of the recent avantgarde jazz CDs), but I heard very similar sounds live in this concert.
Brass: Trurnpet sound had a good amount of air, with a palpable, propulsive physicality to the sound on transients as thus far I had not heard yet on any system. Interestingly, while tenor sax also sounded full, there was no air to the sound, even though on other occasions live I did hear it having air. The greater air on vinyl over digital corresponds better to my previous live experiences of the instrument, just recently when walking by a tenor sax playing on the street at Halloween in Salem, Massachusetts. Yet after the experience in this concert I am starting to wonder if perhaps the lack of air in the sound that I hear even on my best CD in terms of saxophone sound (an avantgarde jazz CD that I bought recently) is simply a reflection of how the instrument sounded in the studio. Trumpet often does have quite a bit of air on my digital replay.
There was a good amount of hardness especially to trumpet sound, but that hardness was initially very 'open', not congested. Yet once the band played really loud, the sound became just plain distorted almost like a cheap transistor radio; one major reason may have been that the small hall could not take it anymore, it was overloaded by the sound pressure. And yes, this sound might have been perceived as 'congested'. The distortions reminded me of my concert experience in Austria in May, when I sat quite close to a large orchestra and at the loudest peaks the sound also became distorted, even though on a less extreme level and in a less 'congested' manner. At a recent event at Goodwin's where Linn demonstrated digital room correction I had mentioned the distortions to the sales manager from Linn, who also had recording experience, and he said that the air pressure in a trumpet is so high that it basically 'shreds' the sound waves. He said, try standing 5 feet away from the instrument! On the flip side of the coin, I have also heard very smooth brass, but only in a very smooth sounding venue and from a distance.
As the ensemble became bigger during the course of the concert, I switched seating from about 20 feet distance from the musicians to about double that, 40 feet, at a few rows further back in the middle of the hall, in order to protect my ears. Yet even then the sound became really loud. I didn't have my SPL meter with me, but I would estimate that 100 dB was reached routinely, and that during the really loud passages levels of ca. 110 dB must not have been rare. I would not be surprised if at the loudest moments 110 dB were even surpassed (it seemed even louder than at the greatest climaxes of the large orchestra up close in Austria, but obviously there the hall was just much larger). I did not have ringing in my ears, however, just a tiny bit of pressure in my ears noticeable when I came back into the quiet of my home (after my dog's brief barking had subsided, that is). I did not listen to music for the rest of the evening -- I came back early since it was an afternoon concert -- because I had already spent all the allotted duration of high-level sound exposure, and more, for the day.
The experience has confirmed to me once more that midrange hardness is a feature of many live situations, and that if you hear it on a system, it may not be a sign of weakness, but rather a simple reflection of how it really sounds. Given the distortions that I heard, as to a lesser extent in Austria and on other occasions, the experience also has emphasized my already existing suspicion that the hunt for 'clean' sound may not necessarily always be the most desirable thing. Yes, a string quartet should sound clean on a system, except perhaps on a close-up recording with the roughest bowing in dissonant passages, but the idea that even brass should always sound 'clean' may not be realistic.
***
In terms of impact, I discovered that it's also a matter of sheer sound volume. Above I had written: "Trurnpet sound had a good amount of air, with a palpable, propulsive physicality to the sound on transients as thus far I had not heard yet on any system." Well, one day after the concert I turned up the volume on just unmuted trumpet (with some light accompaniment by stand-up bass and drums) much higher than at the level I normally listen, to a level close to the concert (I think then it was even louder). The music played with peaks of 96 dBA, and it turns out that at this volume level my system could reproduce quite a bit of that sheer propulsion of sound in the trumpet, even though not completely so. It also can reproduce the fullness of trumpet sound to a very high degree. I never had expected that. Yet at that setting the system would play well above 100 dBA with full band. Even if my the system could safely play at that level, which it cannot, I would not want to expose my ears to that kind of sound pressure outside of a live concert. After all, I still intend to enjoy good sound also when I am 80 and beyond, if I live to that age. I usually listen at 85-90 dBA, with some peaks, mostly on orchestral material, at 95 dBA (max. 97 dBA), following NIOSH recommendations of maximum exposure per day and in absolute terms. That already seems to be pretty loud in many cases; on several occasions people listening to my system have asked me to turn down the volume.
