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Thread: Cerious Graphene Extreme ICs..

  1. #61
    VIP/Donor [VIP/Donor] Folsom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedskater View Post
    We are co-mingling two different questions:
    1] What are they?
    2] How do they sound?
    These are separate questions and need separate answers.

    Wow, Kevin, that's the best thing you've ever said on any forum; congratulations.

    Marce, it's easy to see how measuring and testing is borderline science experiments. But think about this, how many companies and reviews etc have you see say, "based on science"... When we know they didn't sit around performing science expermints to get a products; they engineered and maybe applied some science principles to the evaluation.

  2. #62
    VIP/Donor [VIP/Donor] microstrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marce View Post
    They are making a misleading claim, making people believe they are buying into cutting edge technology using carbon nanotube cables when in fact they are carbon cables (that are thin but are not nanotubes). This does not help the hobby move forward, in fact the opposite, some reality is needed to encourage more to accept that good sound is available (and was in every high street shop such as Currys only a few years ago) at a reasonable price without esoteric cables, demagnetizers and all the other myths and flak that hides the reality of music reproduction.
    Although the information is scarce Van den Hul refers he uses nano technology in his cables. CNT: stands for Carbon Nano Technology. Until we have more details we can not conclude anything, specially from conductor thinness. And I do not see why developing and manufacturing good sounding cables for nice prices does not help the hobby to move forward. Decades ago I had a Quad electronics with van den Hul cables - the very affordable D102 IC and the CS 122 speaker cable and IMHO it was a significant improvement over the standard cables.
    Under construction around a pair of Wilson XLF's , Forsell Air Force One, ARC Phono 2SE and a DCS Vivaldi 2.0 stack : cj GAT + cj LP275m's, TA OPUS MM2 +TA XL digital, TA XL gen V power cables ...

  3. #63
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    What I am saying is that most audiophiles don't care what they are or are not in a position to comment/understand the merits of a technical discussion about them. It matters how/what they sound like. In an ideal world i would be able to listen to all cables and then decide. In reality most are restricted to a few local brands or experience at a more adventurous friend's home. Yes some enjoy blind cable shootouts but I just want something that works, sounds good and is as inexpensive as I can get away with. Most of us are able to do that quest for audio nirvana because of money or time constraints and most likely both.

    Quote Originally Posted by Speedskater View Post
    We are co-mingling two different questions:
    1] What are they?
    2] How do they sound?
    These are separate questions and need separate answers.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by microstrip View Post
    Although the information is scarce Van den Hul refers he uses nano technology in his cables. CNT: stands for Carbon Nano Technology. Until we have more details we can not conclude anything, specially from conductor thinness. And I do not see why developing and manufacturing good sounding cables for nice prices does not help the hobby to move forward. Decades ago I had a Quad electronics with van den Hul cables - the very affordable D102 IC and the CS 122 speaker cable and IMHO it was a significant improvement over the standard cables.
    Yes we can go study, look at the size of real carbon nanotubes and look how they are actually being used, the size they can create etc... It is thin carbon he is using not carbon nanotube technology..., Sorry the facts are out there, it is a distortion of reality in their marketing designed to confuse the buyer into thinking he is getting hold of a certain technology, when he isn't.....

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedskater View Post
    But the name 'Graphene' adds to the confusion, because graphene has nothing to do with the function of speaker cables. It's just bling.
    Originally Posted by Marce
    Rather this thread should have been posted on 1st April, its another joke audiophile cable for those who worship cables despite the reality of electrical signal transmission... The graphene is doing nothing..."
    Mr. Grost provided some information on this via a post on the Audigon Cables Forum.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by maxima95 View Post
    Originally Posted by Marce


    Mr. Grost provided some information on this via a post on the Audigon Cables Forum.
    To be taken with a pinch of salt, usual audiophile bunf.....

  7. #67
    It would be nice to have some specification as well or at lest a link for these cables. Maybe then It wouldn't sound bit voodooish. Graphene is certainly a great conductor and is used together with other nano-materials to enhance properties of many different products (you can find some info about materials and usage here). In my experience I usually find products enhanced with these materials better. On the other hand It kinda works like a charm on me. I keep reading about these materials a lot in articles about space tech, projects of solar sails etc.

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    If it works, you would need to tread all the wires back to the power company transformer to make any difference. Only large power amplifiers need large power cords and of course that applies all the way back to the power company transformer also. It's a series circuit so changing a few feet won't change the high current situation.
    Kevin

  9. #69
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    ..I see the scab has been pulled off this old thread, a thread that I regret having posted. I should have known better...never post ones opinion regarding a cable of any kind...the naysayers delightfully come out of the audio woodwork...never again
    Rega P3-24/Custom Plinth/Audiomods Classic arm/Clearaudio Maestro Ebony MM... Lumin S1 music server/DAC... McIntosh C500P Controller/Preamp... McIntosh MC601 monoblocks... Von Schweikert VR5 Anniversaries with Critical Mass System Rize footers... Velodyne Optimum 12 Subwoofers (2)...Cerious Graphene Extreme XLRs... Verbatim biwires... Lessloss PCs...Nordost QB8+QX4...Acoustimac Corner Bass Traps...

  10. #70
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    Carbon is actually an excellent choice for interconnects, with one caveat: they must be short cables.

    Conductivity is actually a low priority for interconnect metallurgy. In order to get uniform current flow across frequencies, I believe that metals must have optimum and undisturbed crystal lattice in the metal. This is why ultra-pure silver, copper and gold work well. Gold is the best choice in metals because it is the most malleable. This means that the crystal lattice stays intact even with a lot of bending.

    I proved this assertion by building two identical cable sets and then immersing one in liquid nitrogen to break the crystal lattice of the silver wire. Then I made a TDT measurement on both cables. The trace shows an obvious breakage in the crystal lattice as many more reflections are evident in the immersed cable set versus the non-immersed cable set. L, R and C measurements did not change, as expected. Listening tests also showed that the immersed set sounded terrible. I think a hanger wire would have sounded better.

    Carbon does not seem to be a sensitive to crystal structure as metals. Current density across frequency seems to be more uniform. The only downside is the resistance, which can be a problem in some systems, and depending on length of the cable.

    Steve N.
    Empirical Audio

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