Need An Amplifier That Can Make Any Speaker It's Bitch?

Andre Marc · Nov 18, 2015

Darby said:
The use of profanity and shouting is not a particularly good method of debate. It tends to indicate bias and emotion which is un necessary and in this case hypocritical. Calling peo[ple who have opposing views to one's own shiils or armchair engineers achieves nothing.
This seems like a free and intelligent forum and one would think all views would be able to be posted so long as they are not defamatory or malicious, neither of which, have been evident in this thread so far.
Name calling needs to stop

Save the lecture. Your nonsense post tells me you are a competitors shill or have an ax to grind. This is the second time i have had a product belittled by another poster with annotated photos.

The fact you call this amp no better than a kit tells me you are disingenuous.

Darby · Nov 18, 2015

Neither actually, but it would seem that you cannot be convinced so I won't bother. I do know of may people who have made D.I.Y amplifiers, often with startlingly good results and the Redgum design reminds me of a few of them.
I have no malice aforethought to Redgum or anyone else, but I really do feel there are better alternatives out there for the asking price.
Obviously YMMV

Cheers

Andre Marc said:
Save the lecture. Your nonsense post tells me you are a competitors shill or have an ax to grind. This is the second time i have had a product belittled by another poster with annotated photos.

The fact you call this amp no better than a kit tells me you are disingenuous.

Andre Marc · Nov 18, 2015

Darby said:
Neither actually, but it would seem that you cannot be convinced so I won't bother. I do know of may people who have made D.I.Y amplifiers, often with startlingly good results and the Redgum design reminds me of a few of them.
I have no malice aforethought to Redgum or anyone else, but I really do feel there are better alternatives out there for the asking price.
Obviously YMMV

Cheers

Provide details where and when you heard the amp. I have no problem with differing opinions but your description is downright bizarre. If you can' t provide specific details i will assume it is a fabrication.

kach22i · Nov 18, 2015

One less amp manufacturer is not going to help the hundreds/thousands of others in sales, reputation/pecking order.

Once upon a time my tube preamp was running hot, which had me pondering if I should ventilate it's sealed box to allow for some natural cooling. So I asked a question in an audio forum; is there an optimum temperature the internal components sound best at, is warm/hot better than cool/cold?

There was a fancy word thrown at me thermal something or other, which in affect said yes.

There is an efficiency found at certain operating temperatures which effects the sound, some do like it hot.

I did not ventilate the enclosure, and ended getting repairs which made it run much cooler.

Microstrip has it right when he said; Ayre MXR amplifier uses a similar strategy..................Every thing inside the box is at the same temperature.

It just might sound better that way, and it just might shorten it's life.

Sort of like advancing an engine's timing too much to gain a little horsepower?

Knock off the caps and the associated paranoia, I'm here to learn, and amirm's analysis is commendable to say the very least.

FYI: Looks like you can still get a wood face with this heat sink design, no........ what was it called...............cheap Chinese black metal face?

http://www.redgumaudio.com/products/

Tech Guy · Nov 18, 2015

Andre Marc said:
I'm calling out B U L L S H I T. Here

We get a bunch of armchair engineers who have never brought an audiophile product to market taking pot shots at a product they have NEVER HEARD. It has to stop.
it is offensive, presumptiious and down right rude, among other things.

I see TWO F U C K I N G posters (with BLANK profiles) here who MAGICALLY appear here and their FIRST G O D D AM post is to attack Redgum. I smell competitor shills or sour grapes...perhaps the ex importer?

SOMETHING IS ROTTEN.

I have more than 40 years' experience in designing, building, modifying and servicing audio equipment. Many of my mods have been incorporated into hardware by large, internationally significant manufacturers over the years. I call dumb design when I see it. Putting the heat sinks under the electronics is bad design. Pure and simple. So, not an "armchair engineer", but someone with some runs on the board.

I also have experience with Redgum products. I hasten to add, only with their fan cooled ones though. They were sensible, if simple designs (I hate the twin volume pots, but I like the redgum front panel). Their (Aussie built) products are reliable and different. Personally, I don't care for them, but I recognise that a personal opinion is just that - a personal opinion. Others may have a different view, which is why focus solely on the poorly thought out thermal aspect of the design. Also, as mentioned, I have not heard the model in question. It may be different to all the other Redgum amps I've measured/heard.

Andre Marc · Nov 18, 2015

kach22i said:
One less amp manufacturer is not going to help the hundreds/thousands of others in sales, reputation/pecking order.

Once upon a time my tube preamp was running hot, which had me pondering if I should ventilate it's sealed box to allow for some natural cooling. So I asked a question in an audio forum; is there an optimum temperature the internal components sound best at, is warm/hot better than cool/cold?

There was a fancy word thrown at me thermal something or other, which in affect said yes.

There is an efficiency found at certain operating temperatures which effects the sound, some do like it hot.

I did not ventilate the enclosure, and ended getting repairs which made it run much cooler.

Microstrip has it right when he said; Ayre MXR amplifier uses a similar strategy..................Every thing inside the box is at the same temperature.

It just might sound better that way, and it just might shorten it's life.

Sort of like advancing an engine's timing too much to gain a little horsepower?

Knock off the caps and the associated paranoia, I'm here to learn, and amirm's analysis is commendable to say the very least.

There is nothing to learn from somebody who has never seen, heard, or touched the product. Fyi, the heatsinks are actually COOL to the touch after being on a week straight...and after several hours of use. Very presumptuous post here by phantom armchair engineers.

Darby · Nov 18, 2015

One month back. In Sydney, at a friend's home, in his system, in my system,on a variety of speakers and music. He had purchased it for his son as a component in a starter system and we spent some considerable time auditioning the amplifier prior to my riend giving it to his son. His son actually likes it and I have zero problem with that. It works well with his system playing mostly metal and house music.
Neither his father ( my friend, nor myself, liked it but in context, we both have far more resolving systems, so it's really a matter of horses for courses.
I can assure everybody, I am not here as a shill or anything other than a hopefully participating member, albeit one with his own views and who is not afraid of expressing them.

They are no more or less valid than those of any other member and I have no wish to offend anyone but I only call it as I see it.

I trust this is acceptable to others

Cheers

Andre Marc said:
Provide details where and when you heard the amp. I have no problem with differing opinions but your description is downright bizarre. If you can' t provide specific details i will assume it is a fabrication.

Mike Lavigne · Nov 18, 2015

GaryProtein said:
I have attacked a number of ersatz products myself, but I have to admit, it's pretty strange for new, first time posters to both be attacking the same product within two hours of each other.

Andre Marc said:
Damn right it is strange.

no. not strange.

it's the recent techie 'attack mode' posture of our forum owner just coming thru loud and clear. get over it. it's who we are now.

who cares about listening? look at a circuit and simply project a judgment. who cares who it hurts? not their problem. gets more hits and recognition for the web site. first time posting skeptics feel right at home here. more will be coming. agenda's? maybe, but no worries.

Andre Marc · Nov 18, 2015

Mike Lavigne said:
no. not strange.

it's the recent techie 'attack mode' posture of our forum owner just coming thru loud and clear. get over it. it's who we are now.

who cares about listening? look at a circuit and simply project a judgment. who cares who it hurts? not their problem. gets more hits and recognition for the web site. first time posting skeptics feel right at home here. more will be coming.

Mike, you pretty much nailed it.

Andre Marc · Nov 18, 2015

Tech Guy said:
I have more than 40 years' experience in designing, building, modifying and servicing audio equipment. Many of my mods have been incorporated into hardware by large, internationally significant manufacturers over the years. I call dumb design when I see it. Putting the heat sinks under the electronics is bad design. Pure and simple. So, not an "armchair engineer", but someone with some runs on the board.

I also have experience with Redgum products. I hasten to add, only with their fan cooled ones though. They were sensible, if simple designs (I hate the twin volume pots, but I like the redgum front panel). Their (Aussie built) products are reliable and different. Personally, I don't care for them, but I recognise that a personal opinion is just that - a personal opinion. Others may have a different view, which is why focus solely on the poorly thought out thermal aspect of the design. Also, as mentioned, I have not heard the model in question. It may be different to all the other Redgum amps I've measured/heard.

Let me get this straight..you first post here, with 40 plus years in audio engineering is to attack a designer who has been making affordable amplifiers for over 20 years. Nice . Maybe someone will post internals of one of your mods/serviced components and do the same to you. Oh, wait, you have never brought a product to market.

Andre Marc · Nov 18, 2015

Darby said:
One month back. In Sydney, at a friend's home, in his system, in my system,on a variety of speakers and music. He had purchased it for his son as a component in a starter system and we spent some considerable time auditioning the amplifier prior to my riend giving it to his son. His son actually likes it and I have zero problem with that. It works well with his system playing mostly metal and house music.
Neither his father ( my friend, nor myself, liked it but in context, we both have far more resolving systems, so it's really a matter of horses for courses.
I can assure everybody, I am not here as a shill or anything other than a hopefully participating member, albeit one with his own views and who is not afraid of expressing them.

They are no more or less valid than those of any other member and I have no wish to offend anyone but I only call it as I see it.

I trust this is acceptable to others

Cheers

So you have the guts to lecture me about manners..and your first post here, instead of saying, " I disagree with the OP, the amp did not live up to expectations and i would not personally recommend it"...we get talk about it being like a kit..which we all know is one of the worst insults in this hobby. On top of that I catch more than whiff of snobbery. I guess your friend's son is an idiot with an unresolving system and crappy music. What a hoot mate.

DaveC · Nov 18, 2015

There's another side to the design of audio components, and like it or not it's a huge priority and lots of effort and money are put into it: Industrial Design. I can't even think about how much the casework was for that Ayre amp... it's gorgeous but wow, that's an exceptionally overbuilt and expensive chassis. Looks like it's ready to be installed on a satellite and launched into space...

People are willing to pay for that, a cool looking component has a huge advantage.

As an engineer I find the design odd, but they aren't selling to engineers for the most part, they are trying to make an amp people think looks cool and want's to have in their living room. It's presumptuous to assume the designer of the amplifier is is ignorant about the basics of heat transfer and amplifier design wrt thermal management, all he has to do is compensate for a suboptimal design by making the heat sinks larger, which in turn make the amp look even cooler, so it's a win-win.

Darby · Nov 18, 2015

It was not me who used profanity and shouting. I expressed a POV, based on actual auditioning experiences. This is billed as a friendly forum,go figure.
Perhaps you do your thing and I shall do mine. Nothing else seems to be tenable [/I][/I]

Andre Marc said:
So you have the guts to lecture me about manners..and your first post here, instead of saying, " I disagree with the OP, the amp did not live up to expectations and i would not personally recommend it"...we get talk about it being like a kit..which we all know is one of the worst insults in this hobby. On top of that I catch more than whiff of snobbery. I guess your friend's son is an idiot with an unresolving system and crappy music. What a hoot mate.

DaveyF · Nov 18, 2015

I guess for those who are concerned about the heat sinks being on the bottom, there is a simple solution....

....
turn the amp upside down and now the problem is solved..

Otherwise, let's consider giving this company a little slack...after all they are NOT selling a $20K tweek. ( with little real science behind it, but plenty of marketing gall). which, BTW, I hardly hear anyone complain about at all...

amirm · Nov 18, 2015

Mike Lavigne said:
no. not strange.

it's the recent techie 'attack mode' posture of our forum owner just coming thru loud and clear. get over it. it's who we are now.

Woof, woof.

Andre Marc · Nov 18, 2015

DaveyF said:
I guess for those who are concerned about the heat sinks being on the bottom, there is a simple solution....

....
turn the amp upside down and now the problem is solved..

Otherwise, let's consider giving this company a little slack...after all they are NOT selling a $20K tweek. ( with little real science behind it, but plenty of marketing gall). which, BTW, I hardly hear anyone complain about at all...

Me thinks 21 straight years of successful designs means Redgum delivers, and has probably gotten thousands of young Australian audiophiles on the path...No they need no slack from this crowd.

Tech Guy · Nov 18, 2015

DaveyF said:
I guess for those who are concerned about the heat sinks being on the bottom, there is a simple solution....

....
turn the amp upside down and now the problem is solved..

A better solution would be to mount it on it's rear panel, so the nice looking heat sinks can do their job, using convection.

DaveyF said:
Otherwise, let's consider giving this company a little slack...after all they are NOT selling a $20K tweek. ( with little real science behind it, but plenty of marketing gall). which, BTW, I hardly hear anyone complain about at all...

Oh, just wait until someone mentions Bybees, Dueland resistors and a host of other things. I'll down on them like a Tonne of bricks.

Darby · Nov 18, 2015

Andre Marc said:
Me thinks 21 straight years of successful designs means Redgum delivers, and has probably gotten thousands of young Australian audiophiles on the path...No they need no slack from this crowd.

I couldn't agree more, as is the case with my friend's son. He loves the amplifier and it suits his purposes and should prove reliable for many years. Everyone has their own journey in audio and his is just beginning

Andre Marc · Nov 18, 2015

Darby said:
I couldn't agree more, as is the case with my friend's son. He loves the amplifier and it suits his purposes and should prove reliable for many years. Everyone has their own journey in audio and his is just beginning

That being said, why such a negative first post? Btw, no one, including me is saying the Redgum Black is SOTA, or the second coming..but it is not a cookie cutter
product and I have a friend who has been running two redgum amps in two different systems for 10 years, 24/7 without a single issue.

PS. we get some armchair engineers here saying how the amp will fail, over heat, or some such nonsense based on an "expertly" annotated photo. Which btw, Redgum graciously provided permission to use, with nothing to hide.

DaveyF · Nov 18, 2015

Andre Marc said:
Me thinks 21 straight years of successful designs means Redgum delivers, and has probably gotten thousands of young Australian audiophiles on the path...No they need no slack from this crowd.

Which is saying something. Unlike a few of the 'usual' suspects who are trying to convince some of us that their $50K entry level products are the way for the a'phile world to go forward!
I have to say that some of the more recent audio 'jewelry' ( really,is there any other way to put it??) is far too concerned with- as David stated above...the industrial design and not enough of the sound quality and 'perceived' value.

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