The ultimate shoot-out.

Fitzcaraldo215 · Nov 17, 2015

PeterA said:
Great question. I also wonder if the unused speakers will be taken out of the room, which would be essential IMO.

Are the various speakers all of similar sensitivity? What will the rest of the system be?

It is likely too time consuming to shuttle speakers in and out of the room. They need Toole's Spin-a-Rama!!

Still-one is right, though, our acoustic memory is not that good if switchover takes too long. Doing 4 speakers, as opposed to 2, considerably dilutes the effectiveness of such an audition. I would suggest, though, if all speakers are in the room, each unconnected speaker should have its inputs shorted together to prevent cone motion.

Actually, the very most essential thing is to accurately calibrate beforehand by mike or SLMeter measurement each speaker's sensitivity so that playback levels are as perfectly matched as can be. That is just not possible by ear alone. I do not think you can simply rely on mfr's specs. It should be measured in the actual room with the actual speakers.

rbbert · Nov 17, 2015

PeterA said:
Great question. I also wonder if the unused speakers will be taken out of the room, which would be essential IMO.

Are the various speakers all of similar sensitivity? What will the rest of the system be?

If you look at the DaGogo series of articles (linked earlier) on the systems and room you will have a better idea of what is involved

Al M. · Nov 17, 2015

Fitzcaraldo215 said:
It is likely too time consuming to shuttle speakers in and out of the room. They need Toole's Spin-a-Rama!!

Still-one is right, though, our acoustic memory is not that good if switchover takes too long. Doing 4 speakers, as opposed to 2, considerably dilutes the effectiveness of such an audition. I would suggest, though, if all speakers are in the room, each unconnected speaker should have its inputs shorted together to prevent cone motion.

Actually, the very most essential thing is to accurately calibrate beforehand by mike or SLMeter measurement each speaker's sensitivity so that playback levels are as perfectly matched as can be. That is just not possible by ear alone. I do not think you can simply rely on mfr's specs. It should be measured in the actual room with the actual speakers.

It seems obvious to me that the whole adventure just cannot work. Any 'conclusions' will be more for entertainment value than for anything useful, imo.

amirm · Nov 17, 2015

asiufy said:
We're the local dealer bringing in the YGs, along with D'Agostino's new 400W monoblocs and MSB SELECT DAC. So it's more of a "system" x "system" thing.

Our system is in disadvantage from the start, since we'll have just a few hours to set it up, while the other systems will be long properly set up. But we're confident our stuff is so far ahead that it'll still perform better.

If any of your want to attend, contact me for directions/info!

cheers,
alex

Thanks for chiming in Alex. It must be a lot of work to go through such a challenge. Just stepping up to it scores you a point with me

. Hope all goes well to your liking.

bonzo75 · Nov 17, 2015

Is it possible to blind test these shoot outs?

bonzo75 · Nov 17, 2015

Can you do it twice, for Double blind test?

sbo6 · Nov 17, 2015

I would throw in Evolution Acoustics MM7 and TAD Ref 1s.

The winner will be the one that interacts best with the room, amp, cables and source.

Sounds like a lot of fun, enjoy and let us know who wins!

jeromelang · Nov 17, 2015

Unused speakers left in the same room should have their plus/minus terminals shorted, otherwise they will magnetically affect nearby electronics.
I've observed the effects even if the speakers are 3 meters away from playback electronics.

But I would not touch the drivers of any of the inactive speakers.
Static charge might be transferred to the drivers that could audibly alter their sound temporarily.
The problem might persist for more than a day, and could only be dissipated by extended playback.

MikeL, are you allowed to share the contents of your score card used in your club?
Thanks in advance.

Occam · Nov 17, 2015

jeromelang said:
Unused speakers left in the same room should have their plus/minus terminals shorted, otherwise they will magnetically affect nearby electronics.
I've observed the effects even if the speakers are 3 meters away from playback electronics..

Interesting observation. I'd always thought the rational of shorting the terminals on unused speakers and use the back emf from voicecoil to 'arrest' the acoustically induced sypathetic cone/diaphragm motion. I've found that unshorted midranges on unused but acoustically present speakers can skew the imaging quite a bit, along with the spectral balance. Unshorted bass drivers, or ones with a 50 Ohm reostat can actually be used as a truly passive subwoofer. FWIW

But I would not touch the drivers of any of the inactive speakers.
Static charge might be transferred to the drivers that could audibly alter their sound temporarily.
The problem might persist for more than a day, and could only be dissipated by extended playback.

Dunno about that, but touching the Accuton drivers on the Martens might cause their very brittle cones, made of aluminum oxide, corundum, to shatter.

DaveyF · Nov 17, 2015

Al M. said:
It seems obvious to me that the whole adventure just cannot work. Any 'conclusions' will be more for entertainment value than for anything useful, imo.

IMHO, anytime one listens to a speaker in anyone's system, or for that matter at a show or a dealer, then the result is going to be dependent on the ancillary gear and more importantly, the room/set up.
As you state, the result of the shoot-out will likely be based on the particular 'taste' and any conclusions could probably be inconclusive if one were to listen to the same gear but in a different setting/room.
Nonetheless, the speakers in question do bring a lot to the table. I have heard the big YG's and the Wilson's...not the Acapella's or the Marten's. My thoughts on my previous exposure to the Wilsons and the YG's is that they both have strengths...and like all speakers, they both have weaknesses. I'm sure the Acapella's and the Marten's will be the same in regards to this point...but we shall see.

BTW, if I remember it was Ivor Tiefenbrun who stated years ago that having more than one pair of speakers in a room was a bad idea. I happen to believe that he has an excellent point. How the speakers are going to be isolated from one to the other is unknown to me at this time.

Duke LeJeune · Nov 17, 2015

asiufy said:
We're the local dealer bringing in the YGs, along with D'Agostino's new 400W monoblocs and MSB SELECT DAC. So it's more of a "system" x "system" thing.

Our system is in disadvantage from the start, since we'll have just a few hours to set it up, while the other systems will be long properly set up. But we're confident our stuff is so far ahead that it'll still perform better.

I tip my virtual hat to you Alex for your confidence in YG and your courage in putting them into the shoot-out at a disadvantage relative to the home team (or three home teams!). I would guess that neat little waveguide for your tweeter is sort of a secret weapon as far as getting good results in an unknown room, as the resulting smooth off-axis sound means you won't need to "fix" the reflected energy.

KeithR · Nov 18, 2015

I believe the systems will be in separate rooms on gear optimized for that speaker.

KeithR · Nov 18, 2015

I love people here critcizing speaker choices ...good grief.

Rodney Gold · Nov 18, 2015

i don't think the other speakers in the room will be a huge issue.. the room/speaker interaction will far eclipse any effect the extra speakers will have
At any rate .. it's a fun thing.. I have been to many such shootouts with multiple speakers and there were "results" in terms of a consensus as to which speaker sounded the best...

FrantzM · Nov 18, 2015

Rodney Gold said:
i don't think the other speakers in the room will be a huge issue.. the room/speaker interaction will far eclipse any effect the extra speakers will have
At any rate .. it's a fun thing.. I have been to many such shootouts with multiple speakers and there were "results" in terms of a consensus as to which speaker sounded the best...

+1

asiufy · Nov 18, 2015

Duke LeJeune said:
I tip my virtual hat to you Alex for your confidence in YG and your courage in putting them into the shoot-out at a disadvantage relative to the home team (or three home teams!). I would guess that neat little waveguide for your tweeter is sort of a secret weapon as far as getting good results in an unknown room, as the resulting smooth off-axis sound means you won't need to "fix" the reflected energy.

Thanks, Duke, appreciate it.
We know the speakers well enough to know they work well is most rooms, if you know what you're doing. Fortunately, we'll have the YG's help, as one of their folks will be in attendance.
The tweeter (soft dome with the wave guide) is indeed special, very extended and with good lateral dispersion. But what makes them really easy to place in just about any room is the sealed box/bass configuration. Unlike some other brands, that only "work" in a certain position, YGs have been shown a few inches from back walls, as well as smack dab in the middle of a huge room, and they always work. With them, placement becomes really a matter of presentation choice.
Actually, one of the best setups at this year's CES was YG Sonja 1.2+Boulder, and the speakers were literally crammed into corners, in a tiny hotel sub-room.

Barry2013 · Nov 18, 2015

When is it? Can hardly wait to hear how it goes!

asiufy · Nov 18, 2015

This weekend

DaveyF · Nov 21, 2015

Shoot out turned out to be a shot out.....

The speakers that played today were the excellent YG Sonja 1.3's. However, turns out that the Martens, Wilson's and the Accapella's were out of action...

The system that the group listened to consisted of the YG's, the D'agostino mono's, the new MSB Diamond Select DAC, a MSB/Oppo transport and numerous CD's...

A little bit disappointing as the Acapella's and the Marten's were in the room....but I guess the effort to move the YG's into place and the time it took to set them up correctly, negated the option of moving into place the other speakers...??

The YG's sounded great, very much able to produce the nuances and detail that the top line MSB DAC brings to the fore.

Some pics to follow.

DaveyF · Nov 22, 2015

The ultimate shoot-out.

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