Visit to Avantgarde Acoustic Factory

jdza · Nov 10, 2015

ddk said:
That's some horn!!! Do you have a matching one?

They didn't need bass for PA systems, 200hz was more than adequate, aside from the large WEs I don't know of any complete speaker system that crossed over their horns below 500hz. Many of those old woofers were actually full range drivers, 50hz-2khz efficient, light and fast so integration with the horn wasn't as difficult as it is today. Even JBL who design and manufacture everything don't bother making light efficient cones anymore, hence the latest Everests.

david

Yes I do have a pair in use in my system.They appear much smaller than they are.

In any full range horn system the most difficult area to get right is the decade 100-1000Hz.Ironically that is where 90% of music happens.Whatever the designer do will be a compromise: stretching large cone drivers to highs where they should not do,stretching compression drivers to lows they should not go or use "fillers" with or without horns.Avantgardes compromise to stretch horns as wide as possible seems to be as valid as any other compromise to achieve the same.

bonzo75 · Nov 10, 2015

asiufy said:
spiritofmusic,

As I said before, the AGs will do depth, provided you give them enough distance from the back wall, and as you said there's no such restriction, you'll have gobs of depth and imaging to die for.
Are you going to place them on the 15 feet side of the room? That's roughly 4.5m. Definitely not enough for Trios and their basshorns, unfortunately... But it's enough to get the Duo Mezzos singing. I believe that's roughly the width of the room we had at Newport...

You don't need to to give trios distance from the back wall to get depth. They will produce sufficient depth. Ron used to own Martin Logans for twenty years and his standards of depth are very different. Also, his observations are based more on the 9w air tight which did less depth than the 150w SS, though it is possible he saw that there as well.

A duo depth will not come close to trios. 4.5m is sufficient to place trios if bass horns are placed centrally. I have heard them in 4.9 a bit inside of the walls and they were fine

spiritofmusic · Nov 11, 2015

bonzo75 said:
You don't need to to give trios distance from the back wall to get depth. They will produce sufficient depth. Ron used to own Martin Logans for twenty years and his standards of depth are very different. Also, his observations are based more on the 9w air tight which did less depth than the 150w SS, though it is possible he saw that there as well.

A duo depth will not come close to trios. 4.5m is sufficient to place trios if bass horns are placed centrally. I have heard them in 4.9 a bit inside of the walls and they were fine

Bonzo, is that 4.5m btwn innermost edge of big lwr mid horns, or the mids horns, or the drivers midline, or the outermost edge of same?

bonzo75 · Nov 11, 2015

spiritofmusic said:
Bonzo, is that 4.5m btwn innermost edge of big lwr mid horns, or the mids horns, or the drivers midline, or the outermost edge of same?

Between the side walls

spiritofmusic · Nov 11, 2015

Well, things are not going to work Bonzo, it'll be 3m max btwn midline of drivers.
And yet, the Monaco dealer you pointed me twds has his Trios only 2.6m apart I believe R inner horn - L inner horn.
No point compromising on this, the Duo Mezzos may be the better fit, or stick w/my Zus.

bonzo75 · Nov 11, 2015

spiritofmusic said:
Well, things are not going to work Bonzo, it'll be 3m max btwn midline of drivers.
And yet, the Monaco dealer you pointed me twds has his Trios only 2.6m apart I believe R inner horn - L inner horn.
No point compromising on this, the Duo Mezzos may be the better fit, or stick w/my Zus.

The Monaco dealer has his Trios in a 4.9 wall to wall wide room, a bit inside the walls (so 4.5m roughly) and they sound fine. So not sure why you are confusing with inner and midline distance. Not to mention they can be pointed in or angle changed based on the distance.

spiritofmusic · Nov 11, 2015

It's a very simple question Bonzo, a figure of the minimum distance between the physical horns is all I want. The way this unconventional space lends itself to spkr placement is equivalent to a total room width of 4.25m w/Trios tucked right to the sides. That means 3m to midlines of actual drivers, and just over 2.5m btwn innermost mids horns. Happy to place Basshorns centrally.

bonzo75 · Nov 11, 2015

spiritofmusic said:
It's a very simple question Bonzo, a figure of the minimum distance between the physical horns is all I want. The way this unconventional space lends itself to spkr placement is equivalent to a total room width of 4.25m w/Trios tucked right to the sides. That means 3m to midlines of actual drivers, and just over 2.5m btwn innermost mids horns. Happy to place Basshorns centrally.

Hi, can you please tell me, if you fit Xm diameter in a Y meter room, how will the minimum distance between the physical horns change when you fit the same X m diameter in another Y m room? Am I missing something here? Anyway - if you are interested in demoing Trios with the same width as in your room I can tell you where to go. Otherwise we can play "theory - theory" for a few more pages here.

spiritofmusic · Nov 11, 2015

No disrespect Bonzo, I'm asking a VERY simple question (maybe better done face to face when we meet soon), no need for it to go to page after page to bore the collective pants off people here. Let me ask things another way. Assuming I leave some minimal space (6"/15cm) to side walls (I believe Trios and other horns are ok w/close proximity side wall positioning), what is the minimal width of room they can happily work with?

bonzo75 · Nov 11, 2015

Not taking disrespect, but when the exact same distance is available for demo why don't you listen to it? Then decide if you like it or don't.

Also, the measurements have been given. You are just asking for measurement in a different way. Nothing changes. The width is the same as yours.

Keith_W · Nov 11, 2015

Spirit, I don't think you will get a precise answer to your question. My experience with horns the size of Trios is - the further you are away from them, and the further apart they are - the better. The closer you sit to them, the more apparent the unnatural imaging will be. Think - instead of a singer appearing in a single point in space, the singer's mouth is spread 1-2m wide and tall. The further away you get from the speakers, and the wider apart you place them, the less apparent this problem will be. How much this bothers you, YMMV.

bonzo75 · Nov 11, 2015

Bigger rooms will definitely sound better. Question is how will it sound in a room this size? I.think it will be fine having heard it. You can change imaging by changing toe in

Argonaut · Nov 11, 2015

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tXdHOeX6vss[/video]

Keith_W · Nov 11, 2015

bonzo75 said:
Bigger rooms will definitely sound better. Question is how will it sound in a room this size? I.think it will be fine having heard it. You can change imaging by changing toe in

You can, to a certain extent. The problem with the Avantgarde Trio's is that each individual driver is physically very far apart from the next driver. This is as far from a point source as you can get, and is worse with the higher models (with even larger horns). If you are able to toe in each horn and keep your head absolutely still, it may be possible to find an ideal sweet spot for one person. But as it is, the size of the horns and the physical separation of each driver mandates a large listening room. Either that, or give up on imaging. It simply isn't possible to expect imaging with a speaker which has drivers physically spaced as far apart as the Trios, in a small listening room.

asiufy · Nov 11, 2015

spiritofmusic,

There's a difference between "it'll work" and "it'll sound f***** fantastic, the speakers will totally disappear and the soundstage with be incredible"

Sure, Trios will work in 4.5m. All I'm saying is that even a Duo Mezzo will see improvements if you give them more lateral clearance.

KeithR · Nov 11, 2015

I think for 15' you would want Duo Mezzos, spirit.

besides, Trios look far better in Classico form which definitely won't work in your space.

marslo · Nov 12, 2015

My Duo Mezzo XD ordered, delivery within 8 weeks

bonzo75 · Nov 12, 2015

marslo said:
My Duo Mezzo XD ordered, delivery within 8 weeks

Oh congrats, Mariusz. That is awesome

marslo · Nov 12, 2015

bonzo75 said:
Oh congrats, Mariusz. That is awesome

Thank you, even if you don't like them as much as Trios, you are welcome for the private audition

I use this opportunity to share with you two horn setups " Polish made" from last Warsaw Audio Show:

bonzo75 · Nov 12, 2015

I recognize the second one. The UK lampi distributor (who also deals in Thoress (another DHT phono) also deals in these. Haven't heard them yet though. I will definitely come over to Warsaw sometime next year, plus for the show next winter, so will drop in

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