At the recent LA audio show, I spoke to Joel Durand about his upcoming arm...which in some ways resembles the look of the SAT. I asked him if his arm would be priced in the same league as the SAT, to which he responded with a smile, that this was not part of his plan. Now whether the new Durand arm will compete with the new SAT arms, we have no way of knowing, but it was clear that Joel felt that in order to sell a number of his new arms, they had to be priced at a different and lower price point than the SAT’s. I guess we shall see.....
SAT carbon fibre tone arm from Sweden
- Thread starter Detlof
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Peter, my tonearm is OT, but since you asked for reviews, Google:
High Fidelity Pl Terminator tonearm, and
Enjoy The Music Trans Fi Terminator.
High Fidelity Pl Terminator tonearm, and
Enjoy The Music Trans Fi Terminator.
For what it’s worth, I heard an insider story- Marc Gomez brought SAT arm in at a much lower price point initially (maybe half the current price), and was told by an US distributor to package it in a better box and to increase the MSRP to $30 K.
I guess, we would never know for sure, but sounds completely plausible to me.
And it worked too.
That US Distributor has a Masters degree in marketing. I lived in Tokyo for a year in 1990. When a pack of beer was placed on the shelves for sale they watched. If it did not sell, they changed slightly the packaging and raised the price. This almost always improved sales. I think it depends on the market and expectations. I wonder what would be the demand if Mr. Gomez had opted to trickle down some of the technology of his well respected arm and sold it for $10,000. Perhaps many more people would be interested. However, then ramping up production, servicing and other considerations would change. Instead, he decided to improve the design and increase the price. It is an interesting strategy from say that of SME which has many different models of different quality and price and much higher sales volume.
I heard this rumor as well, but I personally have no way to verify it.
It would be somewhat sad if it is true. But on the other hand the sales of the SAT tonearm prove that the current price is acceptable to the purchasers. Marc would’ve left a lot of economic rent on the table if he did not raise the price to the buyer demand line. Or maybe the higher price increases demand (making the SAT tonearm a “Veblen Good”)?
I feel I do not seem to be very sensitive to the psychology or marketing strategy that exclusivity increases customer satisfaction or customer ego or self-esteem. Of course, I might be deluding myself. I just don’t ever recall being happier as a direct result of having paid more for something rather than less.
It would be somewhat sad if it is true. But on the other hand the sales of the SAT tonearm prove that the current price is acceptable to the purchasers. Marc would’ve left a lot of economic rent on the table if he did not raise the price to the buyer demand line. Or maybe the higher price increases demand (making the SAT tonearm a “Veblen Good”)?
I feel I do not seem to be very sensitive to the psychology or marketing strategy that exclusivity increases customer satisfaction or customer ego or self-esteem. Of course, I might be deluding myself. I just don’t ever recall being happier as a direct result of having paid more for something rather than less.
Which is why one strategy is to ask extremely high prices and then sell at a "discount" so the customer leaves with the impression he got a good deal. Money saved and bragging rights for the customer, profit for the dealer. Everyone is happy. I prefer yesterday's leading edge components and today's used prices. I have never seen an SAT arm on the used market.
I'm no fan of exorbitant pricing in any way, but may I ask if forums of luxury jewellery or wristwatch or supercar or chocolate or handbag or men's suits or women's shoes, gnash their teeth similarly?
I don't know Marc. I think it is different because as audiophiles we are looking for performance and results at given price points, so I don't think it is purely luxury in the same sense as handbags and chocolate. But I see your point.
I seem to recall a tone arm made by Joel Durand with a synthetic sapphire mounting board that had a price over 2x that of the SAT.
This can easily happen with several products from enthusiasts at the beginning phase - the designer starts selling directly at a lower price to a few friends a product that has good performance but has a poor finish and some small issues that are not problematic in a small scale. He manages to survive as his expenses are controlled and limited, costumers are mostly friends of friends. However as soon as he approaches a distributor he has to face real life.
Distribution margins, advertising, warranties and also the need to raise money to go on evolving and creating new better products significantly increases prices, easily duplicating them.
There is none Stevie. When we were in HK, it had a Titanium arm board by TD. I opted for the arm board made by SAT also XLR.
Jack, how would you describe the sonic differences between the Graham and the SAT?
Stories like this seem to be fairly prevalent these days in HEA. Too bad IMHO. I think that the distributor is doing a MAJOR disservice to the manufacturer and to the potential customer base. Sure, some sales will be accrued at the ridiculous price, but the BIG question is...how many will be left behind!
I have heard of this kind of marketing scheme being applied to numerous other products in the hobby. Perhaps the most famous one is when AJ Conti imported the new MSL cartridges....and did essentially the same thing. Result, the number of MSL cartridges that were sold in the US vs. the competitors in the same arena was a mere fraction of what most believe it could have been. Additional result is that something called 'negative' marketing now has to be addressed....resulting in a) more expense to the manufacturer and the secondary dealers, b) Buyer's looking at the various off-shore options to make the same purchase ( at a fraction of the price) and c) a potential damage to the name of the brand.
I have asked before why so many of these products are priced at x or y...and not multiples of x and y? The answer, which I'm sure most of us know, is that the distributor believes that these numbers are the MAXIMUM that they can get away with to insure maximum profit. Unfortunately, and naturally IMHO...I think too many times these very same distributors are simply shooting themselves in the foot and creating a precarious position for the manufacturer. Too bad that the heaviest loss is to the manufacturer and not the very same distributor..or representative.
BTW, I happen to know of a similar scenario going on right now with a well known and fairly dear to my heart manufacturer, who has just taken on a new marketing rep....this genius has just suggested to the manufacturer that they dump all their dealers ( YIKES...plus you should hear how the just burned dealers are taking the shellacking) and go direct sales only!! To this an increase in their across the board pricing to the stratosphere is now implemented. Part of the strategy is that the same manufacturer will go to the various shows around the world and offer massive discounts to show goers to encourage good feelings--and additional sales. ( Oh, I forgot, a complete updating of the entire line will now be accomplished every eighteen months--- although this will not become immediately obvious and won't be disclosed !!)
Such a pity, as my bet is this poor fellow will be out of business in less time than it takes for his new marketing rep to find his next job!!!!
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They do not set prices at maximum profit as a rule. That is just not true. Markup is still relatively low in audio.
Davey, I have a MSL cartridge that originally came from A.J. Conti, though I bought it very slightly used through a friend at a heavy discount. It is a fantastic cartridge and I always wondered why there is no discussion or buzz about the brand. Conti was the US distributor and there was almost no advertising or support. It's a shame. Anyway, MSL is off topic. Back to SAT.
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