SAT carbon fibre tone arm from Sweden

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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I made a SAT armboard for one of my customers to put on his Saskia, but I haven't heard the arm, yet. The armboard was a bit of a challenge because Marc wanted the distance from plinth to the top of the platter to be more than I have seen on any other arm. Still, the result was nice looking. My customer has promised a photo, but I haven't received it, yet. I'll post it when I get it.

By the way, working with Marc Gomez was easier than working with 90% of the tonearm makers out there. He provided all the information that I asked for almost immediately. You may think this is the norm with tonearm manufacturers, but trust me it is not. Getting information from many of them is like pulling teeth. This experience was a breath of fresh air.

Frank Kuzma was wonderful as well. He shot me the info the same day I sent him an email.

Oh. That SAT is for REAL.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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$$$$$$$$$ :(
 

mikem

Well-Known Member
Mar 11, 2014
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SAT on TechDas

Here is a picture of a SAT installed by my dealer this past weekend.

Both the tonearm and the table are much more "substantial" than any I've owned in the past. I think they match with each other in that sense pretty well.

The dealer had been trained extensively in setup by Marc Gomez. The care taken during the installation was very impressive.

When we played the first record, my wife exclaimed she couldn't believe how great the transformation in my system was - and she only heard it from another room.
 

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Detlof

Member Sponsor
Nov 5, 2015
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Here is a picture of a SAT installed by my dealer this past weekend.

Both the tonearm and the table are much more "substantial" than any I've owned in the past. I think they match with each other in that sense pretty well.

The dealer had been trained extensively in setup by Marc Gomez. The care taken during the installation was very impressive.

When we played the first record, my wife exclaimed she couldn't believe how great the transformation in my system was - and she only heard it from another room.

Congratulations:)
 

Folsom

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Oct 25, 2015
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No arm lift lever or anything? I'm sure it's real nice... but that seems a little silly.
 

XV-1

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May 24, 2010
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It has an arm lift, just no finger lift.
 

PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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That must be a wonderful combination. I'd love to hear it in my system. I never installed the finger lift on my SME arm either. I wonder how this combination would sound compared to the AF1 with any other arm. This would be much less expensive and perhaps sound better. Has anyone performed a direct comparison?

Congratulations.
 

mikem

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Mar 11, 2014
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There is a finger-lift, that's just my poor photography. Here's a different view where you can see the lift.
 

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Folsom

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Ah, that's good. Is VTA as easy as just turning that knob?
 

PeterA

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Ah, that's good. Is VTA as easy as just turning that knob?

I was wondering about that. Is there a clamp/locking mechanism which needs to be loosened before turning that knob? That would be quite a nice design if it is as easy to adjust VTA as it is with some of those offset tower designs, (Durand, TriPlanar) but while maintaining the simplicity and solidity of a single arm post/column firmly anchored into the armboard.

Do any users of the SAT arm adjust VTA/SRA for individual LPs?
 

mikem

Well-Known Member
Mar 11, 2014
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Yes, you adjust VTA by loosening a screw, turning the dial and then retightening when done.
Rigidity and stiffness are primary design goals for the SAT.
 

Detlof

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Nov 5, 2015
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Nor do most analog guys. I wonder why some arm designers bother to make the adjustment so easy when so few users actually adjust it once it is set up initially.

Peter,

Not fiddling every time round, does not mean that we don't like it nice and easy, because from time to time the VTA does need to be adjusted. Especially with recordings of the early fifties with an obnoxiously elevated top end. (To compensate for the sound of the early stereo consoles of the time } That's why I like the SAT as well as the Graham so much.
 

PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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Peter,

Not fiddling every time round, does not mean that we don't like it nice and easy, because from time to time the VTA does need to be adjusted. Especially with recordings of the early fifties with an obnoxiously elevated top end. (To compensate for the sound of the early stereo consoles of the time } That's why I like the SAT as well as the Graham so much.

I understand, and that makes sense. Most easily adjustable arms have markings for repeatability. This implies to me that the arms are adjusted and returned to pre recorded or remembered settings, either for different LPs or for different cartridges. Sadly, my SME does not provide this convenience. The Triplanar, Durand Talea, Graham and SAT seem to, which is nice.

FWIW, I don't fiddle every time round, I just adjust to pre recorded settings on particular LPs, so if I listen to a batch of LPs one evening with all the same SRA settings, I don't change a thing. It's only when I go from one LP to another which has a different ideal SRA settings that I adjust, and it only takes 15-20 seconds. It would be faster, I'm sure, with the SAT arm.

Some arms compromise the rigidity of the mount to the arm board for ease of adjustability. This is again where the SAT seems to be a superior design where the clamping of the arm post to the arm board appears to be ultra rigid, fixed and secure. It's a beautiful and seemingly effective design. I would love to hear it someday.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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Nor do most analog guys. I wonder why some arm designers bother to make the adjustment so easy when so few users actually adjust it once it is set up initially.

Peter,

Not fiddling every time round, does not mean that we don't like it nice and easy, because from time to time the VTA does need to be adjusted. Especially with recordings of the early fifties with an obnoxiously elevated top end. (To compensate for the sound of the early stereo consoles of the time } That's why I like the SAT as well as the Graham so much.

the Durand Telos has a one piece bearing tower (all Sapphire on that model) which is clamped securely and a separate T-Handle wrench is required to tighten or loosen it. so there are no 'screw' adjustments. there is a hole in the bottom of the arm board and a threaded base which does allow for precision assistance (with a threaded screw) in pushing up or lowering the tower easily (where arm board and plinth designs allow for it). otherwise you have to grab the bearing tower and move it up or down with your hand.

all that elimination of easy adjustment is because you can hear the difference even if the adjustment screw below is not backed off. if it touches the bottom of the bearing tower, even when the clamp is securely tightened around the bearing tower, you can hear it's negative effect. and the Telos base is massive, one piece, and very heavy, and that has an effect on the sound too.

easy adjustment of VTA has it's benefit, and it's cost. until you hear what happens when those screws and other mechanism's are eliminated you won't know the effect. every arm design has to make these decisions about trade-offs. does every design have the performance to uncover this level of cause and effect? don't know.
 
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Detlof

Member Sponsor
Nov 5, 2015
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the Durand Telos has a one piece bearing tower (all Sapphire on that model) which is clamped securely and a separate T-Handle wrench is required to tighten or loosen it. so there are no 'screw' adjustments. there is a hole in the bottom of the arm board and a threaded base which does allow for precision assistance (with a threaded screw) in pushing up or lowering the tower easily (where arm board and plinth designs allow for it). otherwise you have to grab the bearing tower and move it up or down with your hand.

all that elimination of easy adjustment is because you can hear the difference even if the adjustment screw below is not backed off. if it touches the bottom of the bearing tower, even when the clamp is securely tightened around the bearing tower, you can hear it's negative effect. and the Telos base is massive, one piece, and very heavy, and that has an effect on the sound too.

easy adjustment of VTA has it's benefit, and it's cost. until you hear what happens when those screws and other mechanism's are eliminated you won't know the effect. every arm design has to make these decisions about trade-offs. does every design have the performance to uncover this level of cause and effect? don't know.

Interesting, Mike.
How would you describe this negative effect you are talking about? A slightly muddled bottom end? Instruments more blurred on the sound stage? Most curious to hear what your ears tell you.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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Interesting, Mike.
How would you describe this negative effect you are talking about? A slightly muddled bottom end? Instruments more blurred on the sound stage? Most curious to hear what your ears tell you.

before I answer you, it's only fair to point out that there are many aspects to a 'whole' tone arm design and we are only talking about one of them. so when we try to compare designs maybe there is compensating benefits in other areas which equal overall better performance. in any case, I am not inferring anything in terms of 'best' or superiority of performance. we need side by side comparisons to get into that stuff.....especially at these levels of performance.

all that said; the negative effect of compromised VTA adjusting designs mostly has to do with overall precision and focus. when I play my most delicate and texturally interesting recordings there is another level of information and suspension of disbelief. the fog lifts just that little bit more. like a fine focus on a camera lens. obviously there are steps and degrees of this. and maybe out there an even better approach than what I'm hearing exists.

I'm only commenting based on my observations over a few years of tone arm development with the Durand tone arms. he used my room for testing a few dozen times and so I was able to observe various approaches to solving this problem, both mechanically and in terms of metallurgy and material.
 

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