Enjoying your "Vintage" gear

G'day Gentlemen, ladies and fellow music enthusiasts.
I was wondering whether to post this somewhere in the speakers forum / amps / general audio but it seems like this one takes the cake in all directions...

I was allowed to post this with permission as long as I don't mention specific names or locations; so sit back and enjoy because over the long weekend I certainly did!
By the way, in Melbourne we had a long weekend (4 days off and the economy is still doing alright...) Rugby world cup- the mighty All Blacks won, awesome game! The Melbourne Cup was won by a female jockey, go the ladies! Nice one indeed, infact this gives a wonderful fresh start to a new breed of jockey's in a harsh blokes world of horse racing. Daughter spent her Halloween at home this time, serving eager-eyed little kids over their trick or treating, too much of a sugar rush.

Whiles I was away at a very special place, I have never seen so much awesome gear, mostly vintage and somewhat in working condition, I just had to share this, the brands: (electronics- preamps & power amps) Threshold, Mark Levinson, Pass Labs, McIntosh, Burmester, VTL, Manley, C-J, McIntosh, Cary and Quad. Speakers- both types of panels and dynamic drivers: Magnepans MG20, Apogee Diva, Quad ESL63 & 57, Inner-Sound, VMPS, Infinity Epsilon, B&W Matrix 800, and Wilson Shasa (not working due to a lightning strike in the neighborhood that took out most of the cross-over), chappy never bothered repairing it. Wants to get rid of it for 10 grand... including the B&W matrix 800's.

Most of the stuff was in working condition but there was so much clutter, you'd stop to think how on earth can someone listen to anything properly. Then into another room that is totally dedicated to what he refers to as the "flavor of the month" so this particular system is well set up and runs for about a month, until it is changed over with something else. This change over doesn't take too long, the warm up does- according to him... mr chappy.

So at the time- flavor of the month set up- had the MASSIVE Threshold 800M monoblocks set up with Apogee Diva's; holy ---- what a sound! These amps were designed by the legend Nelson Pass himself, and are probably older than me! These things are so huge they make other amps look like toys. I can fit my entire Classic 60 right into the chassis. The Mark Levinson's were not working, bad transformer on both monoblocks and no parts available either. All the tube gear was working ok, so he says... In another fairly smallish room, were a wonderful pair of Quad stats, an old ESL 57 & 63 driven with an old c-j Premier 11A with a PV12 preamp- wonderful system, which obviously I enjoyed the most.

The MG20 maggies had busted ribbons that required replacing, which he claims he'll do just after his next medical check up. Mainly due to being sober when replacing those dam tweeters- was his firm reply. The VMPS had two busted drivers and three EMIT tweeters and two EMIM midrange units were gone on the Infinity Epsilon's. I can vaguely remember listening to the Epsilon system somewhere in the 80's in the US and UK.

So in summary, only a handful of speakers were actually working, the old Quads (both the ESL63 & 57, the Apogee Diva's and the Inner-Sound), still sounding very classic in all aspects of musicality.
Getting back to the Threshold 800M's and Apogee's, what struck me the most was the dynamism and realism of impact of every note. The impact was so powerful for an audio system that each time there was a drum whack or string being plucked with razor sharpness, it made me jump out of my seat! Very explosive and immediate, totally super dynamic with that powerful ribbon transducer slam. The Diva's are a beast to drive (I know them very well, my old pop's favorite panel speaker), and the Thresholds are rated at 200 watts pure class A- absolutely no sweat in performance here. The imaging and depth were superb, and the soundstage was truly remarkable.

The only draw back to me was that the overall sound was not relaxing. I for one, cannot listen to this level for a long period of time. It certainly is outstanding to go for a spin and experience what this sort of power can do but to me the most satisfying and relaxing of all just had to be the Quads plus c-j system, which he agreed to as well. The majority of sources were all turntables, from old Dual tt's to a classic VPI that I have never seen or heard. May have read somewhere about it in an old copy of TAS 80's issue perhaps... Another glorious tt was an old Linn, completely out of wood and weighed a good 35Kg. Most were tube phone stages from c-j and Manley, there was a Cary phono stage that required a tube upgrade but it was sounding fine to me along with an old Burmester preamp. Completely analog, no remote whatsoever.

Again, what struck me the most was the way he absolutely enjoyed his music, regardless of what worked or not, you just can't help it but actually sit back and enjoy the complete presence of what was in front of you playing. When the Threshold's were turned down, they did sound far more relaxed and listenable. However, at lower playback levels it didn't have that awesome "kick" that it is well capable of, and the Diva's are one speaker that can take that punch in full effect. My Quads would have broken in half if they were driven by those Thresholds at that level.

So, overall here we have it, well renowned gear that was made well back in the hay day of the 80's, is still firing at large, and to those who are still using your vintage gear, all I can say is that I now know why you do enjoy it so much- I certainly did!
Cheers to vintage / classics or whatever you call it- they are truly remarkable.
RJ

Hey Al, glad to hear from you mate. Yes, I can certainly see how you have modified your amps and improved the overall sound. To have an amp/speaker combination for 24+ years certainly says something.

There were so many wonderful systems I have owned in the past and at times where I enjoyed my music the most. Sometimes, I think why the hec did I ever part from them because they were true classics in every sense of the word. Although, now I am once again enjoying both mediums of cd's and lp's, with various upgrades on amplification, it was certainly no easy task to get there. That's why when I look back, I think I had it all, should have just kept it that way. ..

Anyway, I'm heading to the chaps place over this weekend again to learn more from his various gear. I now know why he couldn't part with any of them.
Cheers, RJ

Hey Amirm,
Good to learn that you might start a vintage project, I bet it will be good fun!
Infact, this weekend I'm heading over to the chaps place once again to listen to the vtl/manley gear driving his Apogee's. Something I have always wanted to hear in a proper setup, didn't get the chance due to various mismatches in impedence loads on the Diva's. He says he tried the mac amps but they were better driving stats compared to the ribbons. I think the Thresholds are awesome but the loudness is too much for me as was the dynamics. Great experience though!
Have a good one. Cheers, RJ

Well here it is gentlemen and any wonderful ladies...

Just came away from another superb audition/listening session (from humble chappy's place with far too much audio gear). Pristine vintage gear from Manley, VTL & Apogee. I also ended up purchasing 18 LP's, carefully used of course, some minor surface noise on one or two but overall some superb music! Got hold of the legendary Blossom Deary & Ella Fitz, as well as a Sarah Vaughn in pristine condition. I paid fairly good money for these LP's and couldn't go through all 18 of them as yet, just the first three... life's too short!

Anyway, the preamp was an old 300B design from Manley that is no longer in production (went out of factory somewhere around the early 90's)
The power amps were the big VTL 750's (with KT90 tubes), and speakers were the Apogee Diva's (again out of production long time back). This room was really special, it had a lot of space not only around the Diva's but also the space behind, I could have parked my car behind the Diva's. Listening position was not that far though, just a mere 10ft (about 4m or so). The soundstage was simply superb and the level of control from the VTL's was outstanding! To add the icing on the cake that included the cherry on top, the Manley 300B pre added that extra caramel...

Sweet, powerful and controlled sound, with tremendous depth and layering of the entire frequency spectrum to the fullest, provided my ears were up to the task. I took along my reference MoFi LP of Patricia Barber Plays Cole Porter Mix- wow! Never heard this record at this level of realism. Now I know why this chap loves his VTL's so much. I for one wouldn't be able to afford the new VTL's, they are way beyond my budget in Aussie dollars. If that was the case then I would go for the Lamm's without blinking any eye (since I'm a midrange lover) but I must say those VTL's are something VERY special. I guess it's also to do with the Manley 300B pre, maybe I'm wrong, I really don't know but there was some magical synergy going on between the Manley front-end and VTL back-end. Playback level was not loud at all (more towards moderate), unlike the massive Thresholds the previous weekend (that gave me a hernia). However, this time I was actually fully submerged in the music, similarly to the usual Saturdays that I would spend with my Quads and c-j bliss, that for once I actually really enjoyed the pure music that was being played from an entirely different system!

Overall, quite a complex task, too many tubes to change/maintain and far too many connections for me to keep up, I guess this is a form of exercise for the vintage chap. I sincerely prefer simpler systems. This is one system that definitely is right up there with pure musicality and live realism to the core. It is certainly quite spooky sometimes to almost be able to reach out and shake hands with Patricia Barber on MoFi.

Those of you music specialists who are enjoying your music through VTL gear, I now fully understand why! Great choice, keep enjoying that music.
Cheers, RJ

Greetings to all, and a super start to 2016 so far...
I had placed some notes under a previous thread (maggie vs stats); the vintage chappy finally sold off a few items; just a FEW...
The Wilson's went (next buyer agreed to repair the cross overs himself with parts ordered from NSW); the older maggies went, along with a few other smaller monitors, plus some decent working Luxman receivers/integrateds- real classic vintage tube gear. Even though quite a lot went through the door over the December break, the place still looked cluttered.

As I was saying previously caught up with a few dealers and went on an interesting spin. After experiencing the MG20.7's driven with the MC452 and C1100 plus a Rega RP10 along with some Mc dacs & Transport, I was hooked once again on that ribbon sound. I had to remind myself that my Quads are being fixed and will be back soon. It's been over a few weeks now and I'm starting to getting the tremors. I keep going back to this dealer chap revisiting the maggies and keep checking the account. There's a pair of old MGIIIA's going in Sydney, the previoous owner passed away, and the wife is getting rid of the entire system. Great price for a MGIIIA, and something that I am very familiar with but I don't like the color- all white!

That's not really the excuse; after the MGIIIA, I had several other iterations, from MG3.3, 3.5, 3.6 to MG20. Then after which I changed over to the Quad ESL2905. The maggies were great but there are the maintenance issues, just as Don has highlighted. Tweeter ribbons (have to go off around the 3 year mark), glues, wooden frames, wiring/rattling, etc., but that's the price we pay for. Then when I got the Quads, I was really impressed with it's structure and design. Steel bracing, aluminum paneling, rigid structure with a total weight of nearly 50Kg, way more solid that any maggie design I have owned, including the MG20. And now my dam Quads have gone for a fix again, well just one of them and the same one!

We had serious weather patterns over the x-mas break. At one point it was nearly 43C and scorching hot couple days in a row. Since I was at the office, I hadn't turned off the system from standby mode, plus the Quads were switched on- bad mistake. It is not necessary to keep these stats powered up, unless of course music was required. They pretty much fire up straight away and are good to go in about 20-30 mins. Being a silly bugger once in awhile, I always like to warm things up excessively, and 3-4 days of constant extreme heat obviously fried something. Nothing happened to the rest of the gear though. Currently using some small monitors from Jas Audio called Orsa, pretty nice with twin ribbon tweeters and Moral drivers but it's starting to get annoying. I'm visiting the maggie dealer again and going to have a chat to the chap in Sydney.

Perhaps, I should just listen to the wife and hold my frustration, get the Quads back pay the repair bill and sit back and enjoy the music once again. Upsetting the apple cart is one thing, upsetting the wife is like rearranging the planets! Definitely don't want to go there. Envy all the single fella's out there, then again it's certainly nice to spend x-mas and share some holiday love with the close ones.

I'll just go and listen to the MG20.7 again and drool over that Mc combination, that C1100 is superb! I absolutely love the look and the sound, then again when I listen to music through the ACT2 Series 2, it always reminds me of that special c-j signature quality. It's just different, I wouldn't say that one is better over the other.
Similarly on the other system, they had a pair of SF Strads hooked up to the MC275's and C2500 pre with a Michell Gyrodec (one of next planned upgrades in TT when my hair is no longer...) awesome stuff, simply musical and very relaxing but completely different sound. I thought the Gyrodec was superb, untill I listened to the Quads (ESL2912's) with c-j's ARTsa and ET5, plus the Linn TT classic, way more relaxing and fully immersive in sound, from the stage to that enveloping sound that I experience with my current system with the ESL2905's; so why pay more, there is a difference but at what price? Then comes a pair of used MGIIIa's that were great in its hey day, going for less than my daughter's laptop which we had to buy for grade 9, ah! school is important after all. Without an education, we might as well sit back and listen to our music and systems. Hey, isn't that the best scenario?

Ok, I'm off then to the maggie chap, just to have a squeeze (Aussie term for try out/audition), lets see how they sound with the bigger c-j gear, would be a good experience, I reckon.
Cheers to all til then, have a good one, keep safe, and stay in ship shape shape!
RJ

Cheers to that Amir.
Just learnt that my Quads needed a few diodes and small parts, nothing major. All the transformers are fine and all else is tops since I got these brand new.
Will be back next week, I've instructed the tech chap to run it in for a while just to make sure all is well. Real pain in the butt to get it packed and re-packed each time it requires a fix regardless small or big.
With the older 63'3 it was easier to just pop them carefully into the car, can't do that with the 2905/2912, way bigger and far heavier.

So that's good news, and the Mrs is also pleased. The only sort of good news is the old mg3a's were sold off to a customer in Sydney, so looks like I missed out for good reason. Still a great speaker to have as a second system.

After listening to the gyrodec and rp10, I am now totally confused on what tt is better. The rp10 apparently costs more than the gyrodec by quite a margin. It's just that on different systems they both sound outstanding, hence cannot tell one is better than the other. Will have to listen further down the line.
Have a good one, enjoy the music, RJ

Hey mate, sounds like you've been through an interesting journey. Just curious, what preamp did you have prior to the ET5? What attributes do you admire on its performance? How has it added more life/musicality towards your system, especially the mbl's?
Great to learn your findings. I've always been quite fascinated by cj's preamps, let alone their other gear.
Rj

Thanks for that update on the ET5. No doubt, I do understand these traits. In a nearly similar set up with different brands of analog gear, the ET5 seemed to have a very special way of conveying the soundstage and those special nuances that c-j amplification is known for. Last night, I was at an interesting audition, actually watching the Aus Open tennis; well done to Kerber beating Serena Williams, it was certainly one thrilling match! Not so keen on the men's final, Novak has won far too many Aus opens (winner bags AUS$3.85m); that would definitely buy a "nice" system...
Anyway, whiles the tennis was going on, we auditioned the new GAT Series 2. Now, this is a signnificant improvement from the ET5 and standard GAT but the extra spend doesn't gel with me too favorably, costs nearly 5 grand just for the SE version. Of course it has all the extra goodies, such as more vishay resistors, teflon caps, a few added metal foil caps+ computer grade film caps (whatever those are) in critical signal paths, and this one came with slightly different nos tubes of 6922's. The sound was remarkable, driving the MC452 and MG20.7. Also on hand was the ARTsa, and this combination was probably one of the best tube gear pre-power match ups I have heard to date.

Have I heard them all, obviously not but in this price range I have, and I could claim the difference from the ET3 to ET5 to GAT was only marginally better from each component. Having my ACT2 upgraded to the Series 2 was a step closer to the GAT, sounded very different though, the ACT2-S2 being more explosive in dynamics, and much greater resolution across the soundstage. Therefore, if ever my ACT2 decided to call it quits, I was actually eyeing the ET5 and not the GAT, I couldn't justify the extra spend.
The GAT-S2 clearly seems to take this "just sounds right" slogan to another level but it does not come cheap. Upgrading the GAT to a S2 having to spend nearly 5 grand, actually amounts to an entire system, which can give you more satisfaction in a second smaller room.

The other problem is, once you do actually listen to the GATS2, it is very difficult to look back. When I fist heard the GAT, I thought ok, cj has done a decent job and yes it sounds great. Then again the classic SE sound superb, the ET3 is great and the ET5 is excellent - surely what more can c-j do to make take the existing GAT to another level with a S2?
Oh! Golly, have a listen, and you'll understand why I am now totally mental. I will however do this, one thing for sure is that cj will be offering a series 2 or SE versions for nearly all their current offerings. By doing this very strategy they are creating an expansion on the existing customer base as well as a new customer segment for those who can afford the upgraded versions. I strongly believe this will go on for a while before they finalize on a new top of the line series, and that's when I would probably retire the Act2.

I have heard the ET5 is numerous systems now and it was always pleased my ears, one excellent cj product indeed. ARC is following the same strategy by offering upgrades on all their gear, they were doing this since early 2000 as far as I can remember on their power amps. I think cj is on a roll here, especially with these SE versions. I will be heading back tomorrow to the same place again, seems like the GATS2/ET5 SE and ARTsa + MG20.7 combination has got me by the pinkie, if only I am able to bring one of these super SE version preamps to my place and take it for a spin with the Quads, then either all the colors of the rainbow would shine vibrantly in the listening room, or all hell would break loose when the Mrs. sees a GAT! Therefore, I don't think this is ever going to happen, unless I win the lottery, forward 99% of winnings to her account, keep the 1% just for the GATS2- sounds like a plan... yea right.
To those music specialist out there with your current GAT's and ET5's, I would highly recommend the new SE versions or series 2 versions if you can afford the spend. In my opinion regardless of dollars, the sound is simply superb! I really do not know at what point cj could ever better this level of performance.
Cheers to all, RJ

Sounds like a great plan, let us know your updates with the new ecc88.
Yes, tubes definitely do make a difference. Always one great advantage having tubes.
Nearly every time I listen to a tube amp, there's always a good experience, something new to learn all the time.
Cheers, RJ