Quad dsd....on the Golden Gate
- Thread starter Mike Lavigne
- Start date
Hi Mike,
Thanks for expressing your thoughts. The DAC we're enjoying in the Grace Design m905 converts DSD128.
Perhaps, the m905 will convert DSD256 in the future or if not, we'll see if it's feasible to get a Merging Hapi
integrated into the rig, somehow.
DSD256 would seem to be an endpoint for me as far as DSD goes.
Enjoy the Lampi!
Thanks for expressing your thoughts. The DAC we're enjoying in the Grace Design m905 converts DSD128.
Perhaps, the m905 will convert DSD256 in the future or if not, we'll see if it's feasible to get a Merging Hapi
integrated into the rig, somehow.
DSD256 would seem to be an endpoint for me as far as DSD goes.
Enjoy the Lampi!
"but no; this is still not on par with top level vinyl or tape for this listener. yesterday a local very experienced listener/friend came over and I played the new digital toys for him and he was mighty impressed......and loved the Quad. then we played vinyl and it was a whole different level of musical immersion. yes; my digital has improved.....but so has my vinyl."
Your conclusion does not really surprise me, Mike, but would it not have been really nice if dsd 256 could actually compete with vinyl? If I understand you correctly, in particular your phrase "whole different level of musical immersion", the difference(s) is/are still profound! A pity?
Your conclusion does not really surprise me, Mike, but would it not have been really nice if dsd 256 could actually compete with vinyl? If I understand you correctly, in particular your phrase "whole different level of musical immersion", the difference(s) is/are still profound! A pity?
Thanks a lot for the write-up Mike. It is much appreciated. I have just started to evaluate double DSD and quad DSD but very far away from making any conclusions. Courtesy of Blue Coast Record, I now have all of those plus PCM versions as converted by them. The source was a Reel to Reel tape. Sadly I don't have the tape or that would have really made for a cool comparison!
I trust the LP that you tried is not the source that was digitized into DSD?
I trust the LP that you tried is not the source that was digitized into DSD?
Yeah, thanks for the reporting, Mike!
Thanks specially for the two sites you mentioned. I was familiar with NativeDSD, but not with the other one... A treasure trove right there! There's *so much* DSD stuff there! Do you (or anybody else) know if their stuff is real DSD, or PCM stuff converted to DSD?
Thanks specially for the two sites you mentioned. I was familiar with NativeDSD, but not with the other one... A treasure trove right there! There's *so much* DSD stuff there! Do you (or anybody else) know if their stuff is real DSD, or PCM stuff converted to DSD?
we did listen to one 2xdsd ripped from the 45rpm vinyl (a tape sourced Decca) and then listen to the vinyl. as great as the 2xdsd was, it was not the vinyl. and YMMV....some people raised on PCM have a different sonic compass than myself and might like the digital better. but no one I listen with feels this way. but it is a subjective question.
none of the Lps we listened to happened to be digitally sourced. but there are plenty of good/great sounding Lps which are digital sourced. but no superb sounding ones.
for the real story on this aspect I recommend you visit my room with enough time to experience what I'm describing. any time is good.
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I have a few hundred (200-300) 2xdsd vinyl rips on my server. I love them and they are super sounding on the GG. if you combine musical quality, recording quality, and mastering quality together they are collectively the most enjoyable digital I've yet experienced. it's my favorite music on vinyl....but on the server. it's my late night choice (in case i fall asleep).
Quad sounds better technically but native dsd recordings are not yet typically the iconic ones I'm emotionally connected to. at some point maybe Quad dsd will be the ripping format of choice. then those will be even better.
a few of us get to (or are doomed to) explore each format at it's zenith to find out exactly where they rank to our personal ears. sometimes the truth is not what we might want to hear. but without it the push to get even better does not occur. the marketplace is not effective for this mission. it is up to us.
to be fair; the sample size for Quad dsd is still very very small. but the projection of real music from great vinyl easily trumps the Quad experience. more time and more Quad experiences are needed but to my ears the gap is still quite significant. and I've not heard any Quad rips of analog tape or vinyl yet. that might be interesting.
we are not near any sort of definitive perspective. we are investigating and having fun in the process.
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The DSD 256 titles on the Turtle site are DSD 64 recordings that are upsampled to DSD 128 and DSD 256.
On the Native DSD site, the Yarlung recordings are Analog Tape to DSD 256 transfers using David Robinson's HAPI.
The ones from Just Listen, Navis Classics and Eudora are Native DSD 256 recordings.
thank you Brian,
that explains a lot. why the Quad files I downloaded were very inconsistent. I assumed it was the nature of the beast. i'll have to dig deeper and figure out which is which, and i'll need to get more 'real ones'.
I was told that all those were native by a friend who had them, or maybe I misunderstood him. in any case I did not investigate it myself. I can guess which 'few' were actually native Quad. it will be interesting to get the facts.
It's another case of having to pay close attention to the provenance of the recordings.
The Native DSD 256 recordings on Just Listen, Eudora and Navis Classics are quite good in my experience.
The Yarlung Analog to DSD 256 transfers are very well done as well. But they aren't native DSD 256 recordings.
But now that Bob Attiyeh at Yarlung has acquired a HAPI converter for his record label, who knows. There could be Native DSD 256 recordings from Yarlung in the future.
Another place to look for DSD 256 recordings is Blue Coast Records. David Robinson's HAPI has been loaned to Cookie and Patrick for some tests.
Blue Coast has taken their Blue Coast Collection 1 sampler from Analog Tape to DSD 256 in one release.
In another, they did a live Native DSD 256 recording of Quiles and Cloud that's now available.
I've found some DSD 256 releases on eOnkyo and a couple of other sites.
Not sure of the provenance of those.
On the Debussy in DSD 256, heard that one on the NADAC at The Show Newport.
Any news on when that might see the light of day? Would love to nab a copy of that one!
To me, going into the GG at DSD256fs from recordings I've made of my tapes and vinyl rig, I really can't tell the difference if I hadn't known it was digital. But I digress.... guess my tape and vinyl rig isn't resolving enough to make a difference!
or your transfers are better relative to the source. it's what you do. my transfers are from audiophiles, no doubt very good, but you are a pro.
anyway; it's just our opinions going on here.
come on over and listen with me and see what you think.
It's another case of having to pay close attention to the provenance of the recordings.
The Native DSD 256 recordings on Just Listen, Eudora and Navis Classics are quite good in my experience.
The Yarlung Analog to DSD 256 transfers are very well done as well. But they aren't native DSD 256 recordings.
But now that Bob Attiyeh at Yarlung has acquired a HAPI converter for his record label, who knows. There could be Native DSD 256 recordings from Yarlung in the future.
Another place to look for DSD 256 recordings is Blue Coast Records. David Robinson's HAPI has been loaned to Cookie and Patrick for some tests.
Blue Coast has taken their Blue Coast Collection 1 sampler from Analog Tape to DSD 256 in one release.
In another, they did a live Native DSD 256 recording of Quiles and Cloud that's now available.
I've found some DSD 256 releases on eOnkyo and a couple of other sites.
Not sure of the provenance of those.
On the Debussy in DSD 256, heard that one on the NADAC at The Show Newport.
Any news on when that might see the light of day? Would love to nab a copy of that one!
I'm told 30 days or so. there will be all matters of downloads up to 256 dsd, tape, and a 45rpm pressing too.
and thanks for all your insights. I need to get my arms around this stuff completely.
Mike, I appreciate your analysis and thoughts on the various media. We are indeed in a brave new world (lower case, yes) of options for high resolution audio. Analog has never been as good as it is right now, and neither has digital. I think the most interesting tests are those made between DSD and vinyl made from the identical tape source. Otherwise, as you hint above, one is dealing with a generation issue. Yarlung has a few examples where one can compare 45 rpm vinyl (we cut the lacquers with Bernie Grundman) and DSD (made with Merging Technologies equipment and software) from the same tape. We released an album with Smoke & Mirrors percussion ensemble in September that came out very well in vinyl. I confess that Bernie and I did cut those lacquers 4 times before we were satisfied with the results! (One of those recuts was not the cutting's fault, as we pressed 33 instead of 45). Some of these same tracks are available in Quad DSD on NativeDSD.com. We're very pleased with both versions, and I must say that they are different.
We have an upcoming recording session with a quartet from the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. In this instance, our first, we are recording all three high resolution media simultaneously, directly to analog tape using the SonoruS ATR12, which is state of the art, directly to 256fs (Quad) DSD using Merging Technologies and Pyramix, and high resolution PCM for the eventual creation of a CD etc. I'm nervous about so many elements in parallel, but I'm feeling optimistic. I'm doing the mic setup and producing. My assistant producer Jacob Horowitz will be handling our analog tape and DSD, Tom Caulfield is coming from Boston with a separate surround sound rig (also to DSD), and Arian Jansen is driving in with equipment to make a surround sound Holographic Imaging version (resulting in surround sound from two speakers). As I said, this is a lot going on for us, purist label that we are, but we'll do our best. Fingers crossed! We are technically already full for the live concert recording session, but here is the invitation anyway: goo.gl/gV0A4V
Bob Attiyeh
Yarlung Records
www.yarlungrecords.com
What is the DSD256fs ADC you are using? Is it the same you used for the Wilson transfers?
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