Maggie .7 REALLY needs 400 wpc plus????

Andre Marc · Oct 13, 2015

Ron Brenay at New Record Day makes superb videos. I don't know if he went to film school or what, but damn they are good.
They make any other review site that uses videos look laughable.

In his new review of the Magnepan .7 (assuming it is the latest 'i" version) he says a tubed Rogue 100 and a solid state First Watt amp actually DISTORTED the .7's.

He had to brining in a vintage Carver amp rated at over 400 wpc before he heard distortion free sound.

His narrative is that they needs an ENORMOUS amount of power.

I'm puzzled. I heard these at my dealer with 75 watt tubed McItnosh amps in a fairly large room and I heard
NO clipping. I did see how far I could push them and with the volume on the preamp at 3 O'Clock...almost full on, yeh sure, they clipped. But with not any sane volume settings.

Anybody else have the same experience as Ron?
[video]https://youtu.be/cJro26WxdaQ[/video]

Gregadd · Oct 13, 2015

While being a re a very kind amplifier load the Maggies do not resole well at low levels. It takes substantial power to drive them to high levels where resolution is excellent.

Andre Marc · Oct 13, 2015

Gregadd said:
While being a re a very kind amplifier load the Maggies do not resole well at low levels. It takes substantial power to drive them to high levels where resolution is excellent.

Interesting. I would still bet by there very nature they are SPL limited compared to dynamic speakers?

Gregadd · Oct 13, 2015

Andre Marc said:
Interesting. I would still bet by there very nature they are SPL limited compared to dynamic speakers?

... for Maggies in general don't bet the mortgage.

Bruce B · Oct 13, 2015

I have 240 watts going into my 1.7i Maggies and haven't heard any clipping yet. I heard the .7's at a dealer with 100wpc and could get them going really well. Even were resolving playing quietly as well.

Gregadd · Oct 13, 2015

Bruce B said:
I have 240 watts going into my 1.7i Maggies and haven't heard any clipping yet. I heard the .7's at a dealer with 100wpc and could get them going really well. Even were resolving playing quietly as well.

Since you are usually correct I went back to my review on this forum where I said this"

I settled in for a listen. Maggies’ reputation for a voracious appetite for power was not in evidence. Low level resolution was very good,. A pleasant surprise in that I remembered that former models had to be played loud. Alas, it did sound better played loud. Most speakers do. Expect to accomplish best results from a well designed solid state amp of at least 200 watts. Yes I said solid state. Not only is Magnepan one of the few speakers that sound fine with solid state, I may actually prefer it that way.

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?425-Evaluation-of-the-Magnepan-1-7

Andre Marc · Oct 13, 2015

Bruce B said:
I have 240 watts going into my 1.7i Maggies and haven't heard any clipping yet. I heard the .7's at a dealer with 100wpc and could get them going really well. Even were resolving playing quietly as well.

Thanks Bruce. I find the Maggie/WPC paradigm intriguing.

I just found it interesting that Ron claimed total distortion with even the Rogue ST 100, an amp I know very well.

JackD201 · Oct 13, 2015

Julie Mullins in her TAS review points in essentially the same direction with regards to both music selection and power requirements. It is also the direction I experienced with my days with my SMGc and 1.6QRs back in the day. There was a point at which they (maybe the amps or the speakers) just saturated and just started compressing without going any louder, this with a Levinson 23.5 230v version behind them which pump 400wpc into 4 ohms.

I think Ron likes to listen at pretty high levels, 80dB and above as he hints an on many occasions in this review and others. If he was trying to match levels with his Gallos and Rogue with the .7 and Rogue I can see where he might have a problem. That said, distortion is a very broad word. We're assuming it's clipping but it may also be failure to get past the panel tension to control excursion.

Since I started using amps with meters on them I was actually surprised to see what music actually eats up the most power. Surprisingly Classical Music eats up very little by comparison. Electronic Dance Music too. While Classical and Big Band are demanding on peaks not so the whole way through. Put anything with thick guitar work and watch the meter figures rise up, up and up. Rodrigo y Gabriela, that's just two acoustic guitars, sucks up juice the way Christopher Lee would a virgin. Almost double the juice of Swedish House Mafia. Tracks from James Taylor's Hourglass album (insert double take here, James Taylor? Seriously?) is so far the album that is the current sucking champ. Tea for the Tillerman, featured in the review is not that far behind. So classic rock and folk rock it appears are prrrrrettttttyyyyyyy deceptive. Same goes for some 80s or 90s jazz, smooth jazz (I hate that name) forebears. In that sense I understand the reply of the guys from Magnepan about the choice of music. What might be a surprise is what that music might be!

Andre Marc · Oct 13, 2015

JackD201 said:
Julie Mullins in her TAS review points in essentially the same direction with regards to both music selection and power requirements. It is also the direction I experienced with my days with my SMGc and 1.6QRs back in the day. There was a point at which they (maybe the amps or the speakers) just saturated and just started compressing without going any louder, this with a Levinson 23.5 230v version behind them which pump 400wpc into 4 ohms.

I think Ron likes to listen at pretty high levels, 80dB and above as he hints an on many occasions in this review and others. If he was trying to match levels with his Gallos and Rogue with the .7 and Rogue I can see where he might have a problem. That said, distortion is a very broad word. We're assuming it's clipping but it may also be failure to get past the panel tension to control excursion.

Since I started using amps with meters on them I was actually surprised to see what music actually eats up the most power. Surprisingly Classical Music eats up very little by comparison. Electronic Dance Music too. While Classical and Big Band are demanding on peaks not so the whole way through. Put anything with thick guitar work and watch the meter figures rise up, up and up. Rodrigo y Gabriela, that's just two acoustic guitars, sucks up juice the way Christopher Lee would a virgin. Almost double the juice of Swedish House Mafia. Tracks from James Taylor's Hourglass album (insert double take here, James Taylor? Seriously?) is so far the album that is the current sucking champ. Tea for the Tillerman, featured in the review is not that far behind. So classic rock and folk rock it appears are prrrrrettttttyyyyyyy deceptive. Same goes for some 80s or 90s jazz, smooth jazz (I hate that name) forebears. In that sense I understand the reply of the guys from Magnepan about the choice of music. What might be a surprise is what that music might be!

Hi Jack:

I read Julie Mullins review today online was very disappointed in the fact there was some amplifier talk, but no mention of what amps were used. Unless I missed it, this makes the review pretty much useless.

Noted about Ron and his listening levels. He made the "distortion" issue seem pretty severe..saying the music was unrecognizable. To the point he called Magnapan for advice! It is also possible the issue was exaggerated for for dramatic effect.

Agree about music and the preconceived notions about power requirements!!!!

DaveyF · Oct 13, 2015

Andre, my experience with Maggies corresponds to the rep that goes with them, and that is they need loads of upfront power. Generally, the more the better.However, the room size is definitely a factor. In a large room, 100 watts/ch is barely pushing them. In a smaller room, where the 0.7's would be more appropriate, I suspect a good 50+ watt tube amp would be sufficient. Maggies are one of the most room dependent speakers I can think of, in the right room they can sing, but they can sound poor if they don't gel with the room dimensions. ( More so than most any other speaker, IME).

JackD201 · Oct 13, 2015

Andre Marc said:
Hi Jack:

I read Julie Mullins review today online was very disappointed in the fact there was some amplifier talk, but no mention of what amps were used. Unless I missed it, this makes the review pretty much useless.

Noted about Ron and his listening levels. He made the "distortion" issue seem pretty severe..saying the music was unrecognizable. To the point he called Magnapan for advice! It is also possible the issue was exaggerated for for dramatic effect.

Agree about music and the preconceived notions about power requirements!!!!

Yeah Ron does like to throw in shots, framing and comments for added entertainment value so I guess there is "a bit" of exaggeration in there

Julie's timeline wasn't clear either. When referencing tracks it was hard to follow if the tracks were listened to before or after the addition of the subwoofers. I wasn't looking for associated equipment that's usually in a side bar. There wasn't one?

DaveyF · Oct 13, 2015

Just viewed Ron's video, and yes it is superb. I know from my experience with Maggies that what he was doing was trying to get them to sound dynamic..and they simply won't! You can push 400 watts into the panels and IME, they just get louder, but not dynamic. The old Carver amp ( and its square brother...can't remember the model # but it supposedly pumped out 500 watts/ch) used to be the go to amp for demo'ing Maggies in the day. Problem is the darn amp has a top end like frying eggs. Surprised he didn't hear that!

Pulling Maggies into the room the way he does is IMO the right way to go, BUT then you need to bring the power....and they still will never push air. The video brought back memories...I'm so glad I'm away from those darn Maggies.

Gregadd · Oct 13, 2015

My opinion on power requirements for Magnepan is not "preconcieved " I purchased a pair in 1978! I still own them. The general consensus is they are power hungry. Jim Winey used the Bryston monoblockc to drive them(7B)IRC). Sandersound System offers their Magtech amp as "ideal (900 watts into 4 ohhms.)
http://sanderssoundsystems.com/products/amplifiers/magech-amp

Bruce B · Oct 13, 2015

I've had about a half dozen Maggies and have always used amps ~100wpc. Had a Hafler with MG IIc. I had a Classe' 70 with SMGc, a ML 331 with 1.5 and 1.6. Then paired YBA with 2.6r I briefly tried the 1.7i with my Pass XA100.5 amps and they kicked ass!
Most of the rooms were about 240-300 sq. ft.

adyc · Oct 13, 2015

I think the keyword is high current and not high power. Since the load of Maggie is around 4 ohms, you do really need high current amp. A lot of high power amp cannot supply high current at such low impedance. Be careful of just looking at power ratings.

Gregadd · Oct 13, 2015

Bruce B said:
I've had about a half dozen Maggies and have always used amps ~100wpc. Had a Hafler with MG IIc. I had a Classe' 70 with SMGc, a ML 331 with 1.5 and 1.6. Then paired YBA with 2.6r I briefly tried the 1.7i with my Pass XA100.5 amps and they kicked ass!
Most of the rooms were about 240-300 sq. ft.

Yeah. and I used a 35 watt Receiver. I kept a pocket full of fuses. Then one day I hooked up a NYAL Moscode 600...

Andre Marc · Oct 14, 2015

DaveyF said:
Just viewed Ron's video, and yes it is superb. I know from my experience with Maggies that what he was doing was trying to get them to sound dynamic..and they simply won't! You can push 400 watts into the panels and IME, they just get louder, but not dynamic. The old Carver amp ( and its square brother...can't remember the model # but it supposedly pumped out 500 watts/ch) used to be the go to amp for demo'ing Maggies in the day. Problem is the darn amp has a top end like frying eggs. Surprised he didn't hear that!

Pulling Maggies into the room the way he does is IMO the right way to go, BUT then you need to bring the power....and they still will never push air. The video brought back memories...I'm so glad I'm away from those darn Maggies.

Interestingly I have come to conclusion, and this is ironic, that Maggies are for INTIMATE listening, in smaller spaces..with the caveat that you need at least 3 fee from the back wall.

In this type of set up, dynamics and bass will matter little. You will feel engulfed in the performance.

In the end, you cannot fight physics.

Andre Marc · Oct 14, 2015

JackD201 said:
Yeah Ron does like to throw in shots, framing and comments for added entertainment value so I guess there is "a bit" of exaggeration in there

Julie's timeline wasn't clear either. When referencing tracks it was hard to follow if the tracks were listened to before or after the addition of the subwoofers. I wasn't looking for associated equipment that's usually in a side bar. There wasn't one?

I think Ron develops a narrative in his head and works backwards to make it come to life, after viewing many of his videos. It makes for good entertainment I must say.

Here is the review. No sidebar to speak of. She talks of "a" solid state amp, and "a" tube amp. No specs. No models.
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/magnepan-7-loudspeaker/

Andre Marc · Oct 14, 2015

DaveyF said:
Andre, my experience with Maggies corresponds to the rep that goes with them, and that is they need loads of upfront power. Generally, the more the better.However, the room size is definitely a factor. In a large room, 100 watts/ch is barely pushing them. In a smaller room, where the 0.7's would be more appropriate, I suspect a good 50+ watt tube amp would be sufficient. Maggies are one of the most room dependent speakers I can think of, in the right room they can sing, but they can sound poor if they don't gel with the room dimensions. ( More so than most any other speaker, IME).

I think the reason Magnepan has survived 40 years is the things they do well, they do REALLY well. The things that are a PITA are still a PITA.

However I must say that after hearing all the .7 models...7,1.7. 3.7, 20.7, they are BIG leaps forward from previous models.

Alpinist · Oct 14, 2015

adyc said:
I think the keyword is high current and not high power. Since the load of Maggie is around 4 ohms, you do really need high current amp. A lot of high power amp cannot supply high current at such low impedance. Be careful of just looking at power ratings.

Good post!

Maggie .7 REALLY needs 400 wpc plus????

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