Rockport Cygnus Loudspeakers

andromedaaudio

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The audiotechnology " motors" that rockport uses( they make their own membrane nowadays ) are quite low eff motors , so that will impact overall eff.
Im not biased i like Solid state as well
 
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jfrech

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So I have tried 4 amps so far with my Rockport Altairs.

1) Ayre MXR's
2) Ayre MXR-20's
3) Nagra VPA
4) Nagra Classic amp.

The MXR's and the Nagra Classic amp sound best. Both MXR's and MXR 20's have gobs of power, completely effortless, I felt the MXR's were more "warm" albeit less resolute/dynamic than the 20's. In my system, I preferred the MXR's. Your mileage will certainly vary on this point. I have a buddy that LOVES the MXR 20's...and in his system I have to agree with him.

The Nagra VPA's are quite good. Only 50 watts, pure class A in some ways gripped the bass better than the Ayre's. Really special tube amp. Never ever ran out of gas with my Rockports.

The Nagra Classic amp is quite special. Operates in class A up to 18 watts then AB up to 200 watts on 4ohm loads. Interesting solid state topology with only 2 transistors per channel. Less things to match. Also switch mode power supply with power factor correction. Whoa...yes...it's special. Wonderful resolution, wonderful space, wonderful focus, deeper tighter more articulate bass than my MXR's. It conveys a sense of timing and quickness between the instruments. A string quartet just flows back and forth with movement and fluidity. It has a red LED clipping indicator that I only saw come on once in 3 days of playing it. 95% of my listening the meters never went over 5-10 watts..so it's staying in class A. I ordered one. I am still thinking about a Robert Koda amp or a Gryphon...my dealer will give me a full trade in if I go one of those directions. (I have a great dealer)

I'll miss my MXR's. After I sold em I almost called the guy with 2nd thoughts.

Net net...what I'm reading in this thread isn't synching with what I'm hearing. My Rockport's seem to be at ease with high powered solid state, low powered tubes or medium powered solid state.

I've heard the original posters Ref 250's in a friends setup in Dallas. Those amps are unflappable. I'd love to hear em in my system one day...

(Phil, I'm in Austin if you ever want to hear Altairs)
 
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LL21

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Congrats on the Nagra order! I know of a 2nd hand pair of Nagra VPAs (240V) if you're ever interested.
 

flyer

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Net net...what I'm reading in this thread isn't synching with what I'm hearing. My Rockport's seem to be at ease with high powered solid state, low powered tubes or medium powered solid state.

Well, your quote is not necessarily so. It isn't because Rockport recommends such or so amplifier spec that it doesn't work with other amplifiers, it just works out differently. And depending on your taste, the acoustics of your room, or the type of music you listen to, there are many other combinations possible of course.

I tried myself a 25-Watt monoblock with an 845 tube. And it played magical! Especially the bass was scaringly good although I had expected it would have been the other way round. But it did run out of of steam quickly (i listen to classical mainly).
I have therefore been looking for an amp with two 845 tubes per channel but couldn't find any at a reasonable price. And still now I doubt such amp would have satisfied my need and my environment, reason why I pushed the fast forward button to pay more but have it all (OTL and ss in one chassis) so I never need to look back at it, regardless the speaker.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Well, your quote is not necessarily so. It isn't because Rockport recommends such or so amplifier spec that it doesn't work with other amplifiers, it just works out differently. And depending on your taste, the acoustics of your room, or the type of music you listen to, there are many other combinations possible of course.

I tried myself a 25-Watt monoblock with an 845 tube. And it played magical! Especially the bass was scaringly good although I had expected it would have been the other way round. But it did run out of of steam quickly (i listen to classical mainly).
I have therefore been looking for an amp with two 845 tubes per channel but couldn't find any at a reasonable price. And still now I doubt such amp would have satisfied my need and my environment, reason why I pushed the fast forward button to pay more but have it all (OTL and ss in one chassis) so I never need to look back at it, regardless the speaker.

You have a fantastic collection there! Wow! The Totaldac 12 is supposedly truly something special. Big fan of Rockports. As for your amp, i admit i spent a long time reading up on Tenor when i was starting to investigate a powerful amp that retained the midrange beauty and the mellifluous qualities of tubes...and the big Tenors were on that list. At that time, however, the company was in restructuring, and there were concerns about reliability as well.

i have heard that over the last few years, many of the issues have been resolved. Just curious...is this new 350M much more stable than a few generations ago when (i read) that the amps were not as reliable? Even the less reliable amps were still favored by many who could not part with them due to the glorious sound.

Just curious about any insights you can provide about where the company is today and their latest products. Thank you!
 

flyer

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Hi Lloyd,

I don't want to hijack this thread by starting to talk about Tenor Audio. It is certainly worthwhile to open a separate thread on that but I don't see Tenor in the manufacturer's section and I don't know how to create such thread. I would welcome someone helping me on that :(

On the Tenor Audio website you will find a number of reviews, some of them exploring the difficult phase the company went through as you rightly mention. Check this review for example: http://6moons.com/audioreviews/tenor/m350.html

But that dates back from the 2004-2007 period. Early 2007 the company was effectively relaunched with new shareholders, improved products, etc. The bankruptcy had something to do with Tenor at one time using substandard parts, recognizing the problem, organizing the call-back program (even for customers who didn't have an issue) and when the latter was finished, they had no cash anymore... this is a very short version of it. They are very open on it and is mentioned and explained in various online reviews. Check www.tenoraudio.com

The company restarted with Jim Fairhead as its President and fairs very well since its restart about 8 years ago which launched the 350M model which is still part of the catalogue. Since then they developed a stereo-version of the same model (with whom I fell in love in the first place!!), the 175S and each of those models now also have a 'hp' version (high power or haute puissance).
These amps are basically OTL amps with a transistor output that adds current to the gain (generated by the OTL). Such concept has taken them many years to develop and finetune. This explains their very unique position and sound; SET on steroids...

More recently they issued a line and a phone preamplifier.

Again, I don't want to dwell too long on this as this thread is not about them but will see how to get a manufacturer's topic opened. Anyone? :)
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
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Hi Lloyd,

I don't want to hijack this thread by starting to talk about Tenor Audio. It is certainly worthwhile to open a separate thread on that but I don't see Tenor in the manufacturer's section and I don't know how to create such thread. I would welcome someone helping me on that :(

On the Tenor Audio website you will find a number of reviews, some of them exploring the difficult phase the company went through as you rightly mention. Check this review for example: http://6moons.com/audioreviews/tenor/m350.html

But that dates back from the 2004-2007 period. Early 2007 the company was effectively relaunched with new shareholders, improved products, etc. The bankruptcy had something to do with Tenor at one time using substandard parts, recognizing the problem, organizing the call-back program (even for customers who didn't have an issue) and when the latter was finished, they had no cash anymore... this is a very short version of it. They are very open on it and is mentioned and explained in various online reviews. Check www.tenoraudio.com

The company restarted with Jim Fairhead as its President and fairs very well since its restart about 8 years ago which launched the 350M model which is still part of the catalogue. Since then they developed a stereo-version of the same model (with whom I fell in love in the first place!!), the 175S and each of those models now also have a 'hp' version (high power or haute puissance).
These amps are basically OTL amps with a transistor output that adds current to the gain (generated by the OTL). Such concept has taken them many years to develop and finetune. This explains their very unique position and sound; SET on steroids...

More recently they issued a line and a phone preamplifier.

Again, I don't want to dwell too long on this as this thread is not about them but will see how to get a manufacturer's topic opened. Anyone? :)

Thank you very much...looks like some reading to do! I am sure that someone can help you open a thread. I think the way to do it is to go back to the Forum Home (top left corner) button, you will there are various categories for topics...if you then go under Amps Category...you will find in the top left hand corner a button for 'new thread'.
 

Philb7777

Well-Known Member
Mar 11, 2013
39
4
915
So I have tried 4 amps so far with my Rockport Altairs.

1) Ayre MXR's
2) Ayre MXR-20's
3) Nagra VPA
4) Nagra Classic amp.

The MXR's and the Nagra Classic amp sound best. Both MXR's and MXR 20's have gobs of power, completely effortless, I felt the MXR's were more "warm" albeit less resolute/dynamic than the 20's. In my system, I preferred the MXR's. Your mileage will certainly vary on this point. I have a buddy that LOVES the MXR 20's...and in his system I have to agree with him.

The Nagra VPA's are quite good. Only 50 watts, pure class A in some ways gripped the bass better than the Ayre's. Really special tube amp. Never ever ran out of gas with my Rockports.

The Nagra Classic amp is quite special. Operates in class A up to 18 watts then AB up to 200 watts on 4ohm loads. Interesting solid state topology with only 2 transistors per channel. Less things to match. Also switch mode power supply with power factor correction. Whoa...yes...it's special. Wonderful resolution, wonderful space, wonderful focus, deeper tighter more articulate bass than my MXR's. It conveys a sense of timing and quickness between the instruments. A string quartet just flows back and forth with movement and fluidity. It has a red LED clipping indicator that I only saw come on once in 3 days of playing it. 95% of my listening the meters never went over 5-10 watts..so it's staying in class A. I ordered one. I am still thinking about a Robert Koda amp or a Gryphon...my dealer will give me a full trade in if I go one of those directions. (I have a great dealer)

I'll miss my MXR's. After I sold em I almost called the guy with 2nd thoughts.

Net net...what I'm reading in this thread isn't synching with what I'm hearing. My Rockport's seem to be at ease with high powered solid state, low powered tubes or medium powered solid state.

I've heard the original posters Ref 250's in a friends setup in Dallas. Those amps are unflappable. I'd love to hear em in my system one day...

(Phil, I'm in Austin if you ever want to hear Altairs)

Jeff - If I'm ever in Austin I will definitely contact you days before to try to set up a listening session to hear your system. I would love to hear it! Likewise, if you ever want to hear the Cygnus on ARC Ref 250's (with the KT-120's ) and you are coming through Tulsa, just let me know. You are, of course, more than welcome to come by.
 

jfrech

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Sep 3, 2012
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Jeff - If I'm ever in Austin I will definitely contact you days before to try to set up a listening session to hear your system. I would love to hear it! Likewise, if you ever want to hear the Cygnus on ARC Ref 250's (with the KT-120's ) and you are coming through Tulsa, just let me know. You are, of course, more than welcome to come by.

:) it's John but if I hear your Rockports with your ARC...you can call me jeff :). I do get to Tulsa and especially Dallas...so I bet it works out soon !
 

Philb7777

Well-Known Member
Mar 11, 2013
39
4
915
:) it's John but if I hear your Rockports with your ARC...you can call me jeff :). I do get to Tulsa and especially Dallas...so I bet it works out soon !

Arghh! I got you and Jeff (Jeffy) mixed up! My apologies! But please do contact me if ever north of Dallas! I'll definitely do the same if I'm south of Dallas!
 

Philb7777

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Mar 11, 2013
39
4
915
If I'm ever in Michigan, Jeff, I will definitely look you up because I would love to hear your system. By the way - was your sports weekend fantastic or terrible ? (Are you a Michigan man or an MSU backer?)
 

jfrech

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Sep 3, 2012
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Arghh! I got you and Jeff (Jeffy) mixed up! My apologies! But please do contact me if ever north of Dallas! I'll definitely do the same if I'm south of Dallas!

Haha ha !
 

Jeffy

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Apr 27, 2014
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Philib I went to Michigan but I'm a Michigan State fan go figure.
If I'm ever in Michigan, Jeff, I will definitely look you up because I would love to hear your system. By the way - was your sports weekend fantastic or terrible ? (Are you a Michigan man or an MSU backer?)
 

Philb7777

Well-Known Member
Mar 11, 2013
39
4
915
Microstrip here is the impedance curve of one of my Altair's. Notice 2 ohms between 70HZ - 1K. View attachment 22848

Jeff, that's very interesting and extremely informative. When a manufacturer says a nominal load rate for the loudspeaker is 4ohms, they must mean the average over the sonic spectrum. It looks like your Altairs would 'average' around 4 ohms or so, but clearly in the 70-1,000 Hz region they dip to 2 ohms. It indeed would suggest that a powerful solid state or maybe one of the few powerful tube amps out there are a much more optimal match.
 

flyer

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Dec 16, 2012
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Jeff, that's very interesting and extremely informative. When a manufacturer says a nominal load rate for the loudspeaker is 4ohms, they must mean the average over the sonic spectrum. It looks like your Altairs would 'average' around 4 ohms or so, but clearly in the 70-1,000 Hz region they dip to 2 ohms. It indeed would suggest that a powerful solid state or maybe one of the few powerful tube amps out there are a much more optimal match.

A tech guy should enlighten us on the meaning of this graph (and compare to peer products). Anyone?
 

andromedaaudio

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basically its not that easy to drive properly , you need a current capable amp stable into low imp loads,if you want optimum bass performance of the design
 

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