Rockport Cygnus Loudspeakers

Jeffy

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Apr 27, 2014
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Orchard Lake, MI
spiritofmusic I always thought it was speaker first then find the right amp. I always thought this way. It's unfortunate but so far ss seems to be the best match for these speakers. I still dream of finding a tube amp that would work and I have tried many. A 2 ohm load is one of the hardest for an amp which I don't think is in the tubes cards. A lot of ss amps have a problem with this load too so you are limited in that arena as well. It would have been nice to have had the speaker developed where it did not drop below 4 ohms but this is life.
 

Philb7777

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Mar 11, 2013
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spiritofmusic I always thought it was speaker first then find the right amp. I always thought this way. It's unfortunate but so far ss seems to be the best match for these speakers. I still dream of finding a tube amp that would work and I have tried many. A 2 ohm load is one of the hardest for an amp which I don't think is in the tubes cards. A lot of ss amps have a problem with this load too so you are limited in that arena as well. It would have been nice to have had the speaker developed where it did not drop below 4 ohms but this is life.

Makes me want to experiment with the two ohm tap on my ARC Ref 250's instead of the four ohm setting I am using now!
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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spiritofmusic I always thought it was speaker first then find the right amp. I always thought this way. It's unfortunate but so far ss seems to be the best match for these speakers. I still dream of finding a tube amp that would work and I have tried many. A 2 ohm load is one of the hardest for an amp which I don't think is in the tubes cards. A lot of ss amps have a problem with this load too so you are limited in that arena as well. It would have been nice to have had the speaker developed where it did not drop below 4 ohms but this is life.

Jeff, my luck is that I like two speaker designs that work w/SETs, namely my current 101dB/1m eff & min x'over'd/full range driver'd Zu Def 4s, and a possible move up to horns, either AG Trios-Basshorns/Liszts.
I honestly think I'd have to slit my wrists before I ditch SETs, but I salute you for being able to make this leap away to SS re the Rockports.
For me, SETs and Zus bring such unique things to the party, I'm loathe to move away from either.
But I do realise many SOTA contenders are thus denied me - Rockport (esp Altair/Arrakis), Wilson (esp Maxx 2/XLF), Vivid (esp Giya G1/G2), Kharma (esp Grand Exquisite), Tidal (esp Akira/L'Assoulata), ML (esp XLS/Neolith).
I think I can sleep at night :cool:.
 

Jeffy

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Apr 27, 2014
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Orchard Lake, MI
Spiritofmusic, no sweat I'm sure your system is sublime. My good friend charles1dad over at the gon has Coincidence speakers and their 300B monoblocks and preamp. His system sounds fantastic very natural. I love the Rockport's and I'm seem to be kinda of stuck to ss. Believe me if I could find a tube amp that could drive these properly I would be all over them.
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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Jeff, not so much "many roads to Nirvana" as "different journeys to different destinations, some overlapping".
I have seen a handful of Rockport Altair and Arrakis owners going down the high pwrd tubes VTL and Absolare route. Are your Rockports any harder to drive than these flagships?
I realise even a dip into 4 Ohms can present an insurmountable load on tubes, and some SOTA spkrs like the Gobel Epoques present a TWO OHM load at 170 hz, meaning only uber high pwer/high reserve SS will fit the bill.
My good friend RonR on this forum uses VTLs to drive his challenging ML Prodigys, and may be looking at using these w/the Neoliths - surely Rockports can't be any more of a dog to fire up than these panels?
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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Spiritofmusic, no sweat I'm sure your system is sublime. My good friend charles1dad over at the gon has Coincidence speakers and their 300B monoblocks and preamp. His system sounds fantastic very natural. I love the Rockport's and I'm seem to be kinda of stuck to ss. Believe me if I could find a tube amp that could drive these properly I would be all over them.

Jeff, Charles was instrumental in getting me to seriously consider going SETs w/my Zus. Probably if not for him, I may have procrastinated forever.
The moment they were installed, my audio life changed forever.
First, because a whole universe of tail ends of notes, body of notes, and fine detail was made apparent.
Second, because the true calling of my Zus was realised.
Is this enough hyperbole for everyone? if so, tell me to stop now :cool:!
I think VTL, Absolare and the more powerful CATs are the answer if you want to get back to tube magic w/yr Rockports.
But hey, if the new paradigm works for you, and the synergy of Rockport and SS transports you to a place where you dont hanker for glowing bottles, then your choice is the right one.
 

trueblue

Member
Jan 23, 2013
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With a amplifier that is not sensitive to loads and, of course, sounds great, will offer a much wider choice of speakers
 

Jeffy

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2014
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Orchard Lake, MI
Spiritofmusic I have the Absolare amps as well, like I said I tried lots of tube amps from Lamb, VTL 450's, Vac 300i and all did not have the information from 20 to 200 HZ where the speakers shine. This speaker the Altair is basically a 2 Ohm load as I mentioned that my buddy engineer measured with calibrated equipment. A 1000 watts of tube power is not going to matter as we need current for this speaker not voltage. Will the CAT work I have no idea. I am also jwm on the gon.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
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. . . the Altair is basically a 2 Ohm load as I mentioned that my buddy engineer measured with calibrated equipment. A 1000 watts of tube power is not going to matter as we need current for this speaker not voltage.

Jeff, I ,too, am surprised that the Altair II caused you to switch to solid-state. Two of the four Arrakis owners I know of happily use VTL Siegfrieds. (I would use big VTLs on the Arrakis as well.) Do you know if the Arrakis is the same 2 ohm load as the Altair?
 

microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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Spiritofmusic I have the Absolare amps as well, like I said I tried lots of tube amps from Lamb, VTL 450's, Vac 300i and all did not have the information from 20 to 200 HZ where the speakers shine. This speaker the Altair is basically a 2 Ohm load as I mentioned that my buddy engineer measured with calibrated equipment. A 1000 watts of tube power is not going to matter as we need current for this speaker not voltage. Will the CAT work I have no idea. I am also jwm on the gon.

IMHO your statement about the 2 ohm impedance is not typical of a Rockport speaker, usually Rockport speakers have minimum impedance around 3 ohm with a low phase - a good thing. Unfortunately I could not find any measurement of the Altair -can you post the measurements of your engineer?
 

Philb7777

Well-Known Member
Mar 11, 2013
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915
My ARC Ref 250's drive the Cygnus quite well in my 21 x 15 x 9 ft room. I've had Rowland SS amps in the past and I have never heard any tube amp control bass like a moderate power SS amp. I think it comes down to what a listener values more - the bloom and decay of tubes or the bass control and tightness SS amps bring. Hard trade off!
 

spiritofmusic

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Jun 13, 2013
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My ARC Ref 250's drive the Cygnus quite well in my 21 x 15 x 9 ft room. I've had Rowland SS amps in the past and I have never heard any tube amp control bass like a moderate power SS amp. I think it comes down to what a listener values more - the bloom and decay of tubes or the bass control and tightness SS amps bring. Hard trade off!

It may be that what Jeff speaks about in that frequency range w/the Cygnus is just markedly better w/SS.
 

Jeffy

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2014
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Orchard Lake, MI
Philib7777, I did not have a problem with the bass tightness it was just missing some of the information in the 40 to 200 hz range. With solid state this area is way more filled out and much more enjoyable.
 

flyer

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Dec 16, 2012
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rockport speakers require a amp with maximum 0.1 ohm source impedance (or output impedance called otherwise). This requires a damping factor of at least 100 by the amp. Very few tube amps have that and if they do, they may not have it across the whole frequency range.
Reason why at shows Rockport speakers are mostly driven by solid state beasts and why Andy Payor tests only with ss gear. The main exception is absolare which seems to give a very good sound following the reports... at shows. Whether they do across the frequency range and large symphonic work or choirs or concert pianos, i don't know.
 

andromedaaudio

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Jan 23, 2011
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Couldnt find any cygnus specs on the site but the avior seems to be somewhat similiar in size and has according to the specs a 89,5 db sensitivity which is good , nominal imp doesnt tell me much i d like to see the curve , but if the cygnus is somewhat similiar the CAT wold have a blast no problem imo .
It would be interesting if jeffy would try the cat on the Rockport altair with or without good results.
For big woofers you need power /current to make them swing dynamic /controlled and exploit them maximally
 

flyer

VIP/Donor
Dec 16, 2012
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Couldnt find any cygnus specs on the site but the avior seems to be somewhat similiar in size and has according to the specs a 89,5 db sensitivity which is good , nominal imp doesnt tell me much i d like to see the curve , but if the cygnus is somewhat similiar the CAT wold have a blast no problem imo .
It would be interesting if jeffy would try the cat on the Rockport altair with or without good results.
For big woofers you need power /current to make them swing dynamic /controlled and exploit them maximally

Probably agree for such CAT! Alternatively, if you want tube (sound) but being able to drive it all, Tenor Audio is a good choice :) (sorry, I am a bit biased as I have a Tenor audition centre ;))
 

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