Some days, I want to throw out my stereo

Phelonious Ponk · Oct 9, 2015

I'm not a big classical listener, Marty, but I feel your audio pain. At least once a week I play in a rehearsal space or club, standing just a few feet from a real drum kit. God, that's a rude reminder of the limitations of audio recording and reproduction technology. An unreasonable facsimile, I'm afraid. But I still enjoy the simulation; I just accept it for what it is.

Tim

microstrip · Oct 9, 2015

You give some one a half filled glass to find if he his a pessimist or an optimist. After listening to life performance, normally I feel pleased and astonished by how much of the life performance our best systems can currently reach for us. BTW, it is much easier to deal with the limitations of something when we know we a part of that limit.

bonzo75 · Oct 9, 2015

Is there a pattern here? How many objectivists are classical listeners? I know that Amir is not much into classical, nor is Purite, and now PP says he isn't either. Is Michael (DJ) a primarily classical guy? All these are pure SS, non valve guys as well. Apologies for making this another objectivist - subjectivist thread, but it's Friday afternoon

Phelonious Ponk · Oct 9, 2015

bonzo75 said:
Is there a pattern here? How many objectivists are classical listeners? I know that Amir is not much into classical, nor is Purite, and now PP says he isn't either. Is Michael (DJ) a primarily classical guy? All these are pure SS, non valve guys as well. Apologies for making this another objectivist - subjectivist thread, but it's Friday afternoon

I don't listen to a lot of classical, but I do listen to a lot of small-ensemble acoustic music, the very stuff that tubes are supposed to be best at. And I do it with an all digital, active, solid state system. Go figure.

Tim

NorthStar · Oct 9, 2015

It's not the type of music we listen to @ home...it's the live music we assist @...be it Opera, Orchestral, Choral, Classical Chamber, Jazz, Blues, Rock, ...

The first original post of this thread says it all...nothing is going to change that...nothing. This is sparta, what a lovely day, it's the real presence of live music, it's the experience of being the performer, or the witness, it's there more than here, more than anywhere else except in the now, live.

Classical music (Opera) is the ultimate human expression @ the highest level...the human chords, the human voice @ its peak.
Blues singers they're cool too, just not to the grandiose level as Opera singers. Rock singers...like the Rolling Stones, or Nirvana, or Led Zeppelin, or Black Sabbath with Ozzy, or AC/DC, ... lol ...so far away from the deep emotional impact of the best Opera bands; figure of speech...I mean the Tenor, the Soprano male and female singers, the Opera virtuoso/maestros.

Nothing compares to Operas and Chorales. ...The human voices of the angels, the repertoire of the human range of vocal chords @ the highest emotional level.

That's my opinion, and I still love Blues & Jazz singers (males and females). ...Live, or dive.

andromedaaudio · Oct 9, 2015

I partly agree .classical music has always been the music of the "elite " , hard rock: AC DC , IRON MAIDEN , tells it like it is

NorthStar · Oct 9, 2015

You forgot JUDAS PRIEST. ;-)

marty · Oct 9, 2015

Bob,
Although music preferences vary, I think your standard footnote quote says it very well. Like most of us on this forum, music "stones me to my soul". It's all good! I do not believe audiophiles deserve denigration when some say we buy music to listen to our equipment. From what I can tell, music is a big part of our lives, and it does not matter how or where we get it. I'm currently on a plane and my iPod playing Bill Evans works just fine to put a smile on my face today.

That said, I'll pass on Judas Priest!!
Marty

Ron Resnick · Oct 9, 2015

bonzo75 said:
Is there a pattern here?

Perhaps a WBF survey would be a good way to test bonzo75's theory (I do not know how the survey solicitation is posted on WBF):

If you listen primarily to classical music do you prefer tube or solid state electronics?

If you listen primarily to music other than classical music do you prefer tube or solid state electronics?

NorthStar · Oct 9, 2015

marty said:
Bob,
Although music preferences vary, I think your standard footnote quote says it very well. Like most of us on this forum, music "stones me to my soul". It's all good! I do not believe audiophiles deserve denigration when some say we buy music to listen to our equipment. From what I can tell, music is a big part of our lives, and it does not matter how or where we get it. I'm currently on a plane and my iPod playing Bill Evan works just fine to put a smile on my face today.

That said, I'll pass on Judas Priest!!
Marty

:b ...You said it all; "It's all good."

* I just came back from outside...where the clouds are now covering the sky...it smells like it's going to rain. ...All is silence right now, just one clock ticking, the fridge's motor humming. ...Wind coming through the open window. I'm getting up, tuning the radio stations...nothing...so I'm putting a CD inside the CD player...Beethoven - Chopin - Rachmaninoff | Lee Yun-Yang (piano) & Sietse-Jan Weijenberg (violoncello)
=> Classical chamber music from Ultra Analog Recordings.
...A gift from one of our members here; Edward (Ed) Pong (master tape recordist)

Nothing close to live but that would do for now...@ home.

Hope you had a nice enjoyable flight Marty...and I have only one CD of Judas Priest, The Best of | Living After Midnight. I must have bought it when in a deep depression over a broken love affair...she left me for my best friend...and I was feeling like Nirvana...the lead singer.

NorthStar · Oct 10, 2015

Question: Do you guys sometime while sleeping deep in the wee hours of the morning glory dream about live music performances?

Can you see the artists performing on stage, and can you hear their voices (singing) with the music accompanying?

Rodney Gold · Oct 10, 2015

Morning glory means I can't wee..and Im dreaming of a live performance ..but not musical

PeterA · Oct 11, 2015

microstrip said:
You give some one a half filled glass to find if he his a pessimist or an optimist. After listening to life performance, normally I feel pleased and astonished by how much of the life performance our best systems can currently reach for us.

I'm with you microstrip. I just attended an excellent live performance of a string quartet in a small theater auditorium. Two fellow audiophiles and I were seated directly in the center, twenty feet back from the musicians. The performance and interpretation of Shubert's "Death and the Maiden" were wonderful and it was a very enjoyable evening. One of my buddies, fellow member Al M., remarked that our reproduction systems simply do not even come close to this sound.

Well, I went home that evening and played my LP of the same music performed by Quartetto Italiano on Philips 9500 751. I found the scale, volume and presence remarkably similar to what we had just heard earlier that evening. Even dynamics and tone were very good. The real shortfall was in the absolute accuracy of timbre and ultimate clarity and resolution. The reproduction simply did not capture all of the information of the live event and perhaps that is what Al M. was articulating.

Our other buddy David commented after the concert about what our brains fill in when we listen to reproduced music. Perhaps having just heard this same music, my brain was filling in the gaps that the reproduction could not capture. I have heard that this is a possible explanation for why professional musicians do not care more about the quality of audio systems. Their brains fill in what is missing because they already know how something should sound and therefore do not need high resolution systems to enjoy music.

Regardsless, to micro's point, I was quite pleased with just how much of the experience can be had from a good system. There is nothing like actually hearing the real thing in a good hall, but we have come a long way, imo. A full scale opera or symphony is a different matter entirely, though, and so is Led Zeppelin at realistic volume. But the other really cool thing is that it only takes a few minutes to find another LP of Miles Davis, Carla White or Pink Floyd, reset the VTA, and be transported to another completely different experience, all in the comfort and convenience of your listening seat at home.

PeterA · Oct 11, 2015

bonzo75 said:
Is there a pattern here? How many objectivists are classical listeners? I know that Amir is not much into classical, nor is Purite, and now PP says he isn't either. Is Michael (DJ) a primarily classical guy? All these are pure SS, non valve guys as well. Apologies for making this another objectivist - subjectivist thread, but it's Friday afternoon

I think there is a pattern here. There seems to be a correlation between objective listeners and better measuring systems - solid state, digital, DSP, etc. I don't know about music preferences. There are plenty of digital guys who listen to classical and acoustic music, but there are also many, many classical music listeners who prefer tubes and vinyl.

I wonder too if there is any correlation between types of systems, types of music and whether or not members list their systems in their signatures or are active in music or equipment threads. I think there is a healthy mix of all of the above, but it would be interesting to see if there are any deeper patterns among the membership.

Perhaps a topic for another thread.

PeterA · Oct 11, 2015

NorthStar said:
It's not the type of music we listen to @ home...it's the live music we assist @...be it Opera, Orchestral, Choral, Classical Chamber, Jazz, Blues, Rock, ...

The first original post of this thread says it all...nothing is going to change that...nothing. This is sparta, what a lovely day, it's the real presence of live music, it's the experience of being the performer, or the witness, it's there more than here, more than anywhere else except in the now, live.

Classical music (Opera) is the ultimate human expression @ the highest level...the human chords, the human voice @ its peak.
Blues singers they're cool too, just not to the grandiose level as Opera singers. Rock singers...like the Rolling Stones, or Nirvana, or Led Zeppelin, or Black Sabbath with Ozzy, or AC/DC, ... lol ...so far away from the deep emotional impact of the best Opera bands; figure of speech...I mean the Tenor, the Soprano male and female singers, the Opera virtuoso/maestros.

Nothing compares to Operas and Chorales. ...The human voices of the angels, the repertoire of the human range of vocal chords @ the highest emotional level.

That's my opinion, and I still love Blues & Jazz singers (males and females). ...Live, or dive.

That's pretty cool, but cranking Ian Gillan singing Weber's passion of Jesus Christ Superstar on a great system can be a pretty transcendental experience too.

marty · Oct 11, 2015

PeterA said:
But the other really cool thing is that it only takes a few minutes to find another LP of Miles Davis, Carla White or Pink Floyd, reset the VTA, and be transported to another completely different experience, all in the comfort and convince of your listening seat at home.

Hi Peter,
I'm not sure I understand why you have to reset the VTA on selected pieces. Is this something you do routinely? I would think that would be rather unusual, no?
Marty

amirm · Oct 11, 2015

bonzo75 said:
Is there a pattern here? How many objectivists are classical listeners? I know that Amir is not much into classical, nor is Purite, and now PP says he isn't either. Is Michael (DJ) a primarily classical guy? All these are pure SS, non valve guys as well. Apologies for making this another objectivist - subjectivist thread, but it's Friday afternoon

Please don't. FYI, I have two headphone amps from Stax, both of which are tube based.

PeterA · Oct 11, 2015

marty said:
Hi Peter,
I'm not sure I understand why you have to reset the VTA on selected pieces. Is this something you do routinely? I would think that would be rather unusual, no?
Marty

Marty, it's way off topic, but yes, I do routinely adjust VTA for different LPs. It improves the sound but is a hassle which most do not find worth the trouble. I discuss this on my system page and in some threads on VTA/SRA. It is one of my perverse proclivities.

anders · Oct 11, 2015

bonzo75 said:
Is there a pattern here? How many objectivists are classical listeners? I know that Amir is not much into classical, nor is Purite, and now PP says he isn't either. Is Michael (DJ) a primarily classical guy? All these are pure SS, non valve guys as well. Apologies for making this another objectivist - subjectivist thread, but it's Friday afternoon

I suggest reading Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. A blending of the arts and sciences can produce wonderful results and there is no need to strictly classify people as preferring one or the other.

I've been a classical fan since I was 10, took up playing piano several years before that and nearly became a professional musician before thinking long and hard about my future. I like tube amps, field coil and vintage drivers, etc. But I also embrace DSP, EQ, and active systems.

bonzo75 · Oct 11, 2015

anders said:
I suggest reading Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. A blending of the arts and sciences can produce wonderful results and there is no need to strictly classify people as preferring one or the other.

I've been a classical fan since I was 10, took up playing piano several years before that and nearly became a professional musician before thinking long and hard about my future. I like tube amps, field coil and vintage drivers, etc. But I also embrace DSP, EQ, and active systems.

I embrace DSP, EQ, too. And like tube amps, vintage drivers, etc. So, I am referring to people who strictly don't use tubes...there are such people who think tubes are distortion, and instead of using DSP and measurements as guidance, use only measurements, and not ears...not to mention that was Friday afternoon when I said this

Some days, I want to throw out my stereo

New Member

VIP/Donor

Member Sponsor

New Member

Member

VIP/Donor

Member

Well-Known Member

Site Co-Owner, Administrator

Member

Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Banned

Well-Known Member

New Member

Member Sponsor

Similar threads