Lyra Etna, Miyajima Labs Madake or....?

rossb

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2017
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Ross, are you having any issues with the phono stage? I ask, as the Etna SL is a very low output cartridge and will, I suspect, tax most phono stages. The result could easily be less dynamics and resolution along with possible distortion as the gain is increased.
While noise may not appear into the picture, until very high gain is applied (mainly applicable with a ss phono stage vs. a tube unit), a less than great sound will be the result. Did you consider the regular Etna, it is a much higher output cartridge and shouldn’t stress most any phono stage.
I am considering the Etna, as it is an excellent cartridge and hard to beat. The Etna SL may be better in some instances, but as MF pointed out in his review, you had better have one heck of a phono stage...

I don't believe there should be issues with the phono stage. I am using the internal phono stage of my EAR 912 (equivalent to the standalone EAR 88PB) which has a 3 ohm tap on the internal SUT. It is a reference level phono stage with extremely low noise for a tube unit, and the 3 ohm SUT input is intended for very low output cartridges. I also have a Whest Ref V and a Naim Superline/Supercap, which I may try with the Etna SL. It did cross my mind to get the regular Etna instead, but as my phono stages are all designed for these super-low output cartrides, I did not think there should be any issues.
 

Ozzi

Well-Known Member
Nov 27, 2015
29
4
108
I also have no problems!
I am using the AESTHETIX RHEA TUBE PHONO STAGER hea is an all-tube phono stage, suitable for moving coil and moving magnet cartridges.
It offers high maximum gain at 75 dB, making it ideal for low output cartridges.
Rhea broke new ground as the first phono stage with 3 phono inputs, the first with gain and loading settings stored in memory for every input, and the first with full remote control adjustability.
Zero feedback. 40-75dB gain maximum, selectable via front panel or remote control. 9 MC loading settings: 75-47,000 ohms, selectable via front panel or remote control.
All tube amplification and output (10 tubes total).
 

rossb

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2017
68
40
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I don't believe there should be issues with the phono stage. I am using the internal phono stage of my EAR 912 (equivalent to the standalone EAR 88PB) which has a 3 ohm tap on the internal SUT. It is a reference level phono stage with extremely low noise for a tube unit, and the 3 ohm SUT input is intended for very low output cartridges. I also have a Whest Ref V and a Naim Superline/Supercap, which I may try with the Etna SL. It did cross my mind to get the regular Etna instead, but as my phono stages are all designed for these super-low output cartrides, I did not think there should be any issues.

I'm now trying the Etna SL with my Naim Superline/Supercap, which in theory should be an ideal match for it - 64db solid state with an extremely low noise external PSU. It sounds better, but still sounds quite lean, thin and lightweight. The cartridge has about 20 hours on it, and should sound better than this.
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
6,129
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La Jolla, Calif USA
I'm now trying the Etna SL with my Naim Superline/Supercap, which in theory should be an ideal match for it - 64db solid state with an extremely low noise external PSU. It sounds better, but still sounds quite lean, thin and lightweight. The cartridge has about 20 hours on it, and should sound better than this.


Unfortunately a mismatch at the phono stage can elicit the results that you are reporting. What one hears (typically) with a tube phono stage that is working too hard, is the dreaded tube noise...and all of the other attributes that I described in my prior post. If a ss phono stage or for that matter an SUT is being taxed, then tube noise is not going to be an issue( obviously), but loss of SQ certainly is.

I really do wish that cartidge manufacturers would be a little more...shall we say...outgoing,about the likelihood of matching up a phono stage to the cartridge...even if the phono stage is so called ‘designed’ for flea output cartridges...which IME, very very few actually are!

Years ago, I made this very same mistake, bought a super low output cartridge (got an excellent price) and figured I would listen past the possible deficiencies if there were going to be any. Nope, that didn’t happen, ultimately I was disappointed and annoyed. Until, that is, I replaced the darn cartridge with one that didn’t have quite the reviews (and a much higher output), but sure sounded a hell of a lot better...in my system.
 

rossb

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2017
68
40
123
Unfortunately a mismatch at the phono stage can elicit the results that you are reporting. What one hears (typically) with a tube phono stage that is working too hard, is the dreaded tube noise...and all of the other attributes that I described in my prior post. If a ss phono stage or for that matter an SUT is being taxed, then tube noise is not going to be an issue( obviously), but loss of SQ certainly is.

I really do wish that cartidge manufacturers would be a little more...shall we say...outgoing,about the likelihood of matching up a phono stage to the cartridge...even if the phono stage is so called ‘designed’ for flea output cartridges...which IME, very very few actually are!

Years ago, I made this very same mistake, bought a super low output cartridge (got an excellent price) and figured I would listen past the possible deficiencies if there were going to be any. Nope, that didn’t happen, ultimately I was disappointed and annoyed. Until, that is, I replaced the darn cartridge with one that didn’t have quite the reviews (and a much higher output), but sure sounded a hell of a lot better...in my system.

It's not a phono stage issue. I am now using a solid state phono stage which is an ideal match for the Etna SL. Also, my Kuzma Car 40, which is only marginally higher output at 0.30mv, sounds perfectly fine. It is either an issue with the cartridge - it needs a lot more break in - or that's just the way it sounds, and a lot of people seem to like this kind of sound, since in my experience Lyra cartridges have always had a fairly lean, lighter sound than many others. Unless it fills out and deepens with break in, I might just have to write it off as another unsuccessful experiment with a Lyra cartridge.
 

XV-1

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
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It's not a phono stage issue. I am now using a solid state phono stage which is an ideal match for the Etna SL. Also, my Kuzma Car 40, which is only marginally higher output at 0.30mv, sounds perfectly fine. It is either an issue with the cartridge - it needs a lot more break in - or that's just the way it sounds, and a lot of people seem to like this kind of sound, since in my experience Lyra cartridges have always had a fairly lean, lighter sound than many others. Unless it fills out and deepens with break in, I might just have to write it off as another unsuccessful experiment with a Lyra cartridge.

What loading are you running the Lyra with.? Imo they don't sound best unless loaded over 250 ohms.

Lyra carts are very transparent, any mismatch elsewhere in the system will be heard. I don't find mine lean or light.

Or one mans neutral is anothers lean and another mans sweet is coloured.
 
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rossb

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2017
68
40
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What loading are you running the Lyra with.? Imo they don't sound best unless loaded over 250 ohms.

Lyra carts are very transparent, any mismatch elsewhere in the system will be heard. I don't find mine lean or light.

Or one mans neutral is anothers lean and another mans sweet is coloured.

With the Superline, I was loading it at 220. I have gone back to the EAR phono stage, which I think I prefer. It adds some heft and density to the sound.

I will give it another 30 hours or so and re-evaluate.
 

XV-1

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May 24, 2010
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With the Superline, I was loading it at 220. I have gone back to the EAR phono stage, which I think I prefer. It adds some heft and density to the sound.

I will give it another 30 hours or so and re-evaluate.

try it with the 6ohm tap. 3ohm might be constricting it.
 

Sunnyboy1956

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Feb 22, 2014
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With the Superline, I was loading it at 220. I have gone back to the EAR phono stage, which I think I prefer. It adds some heft and density to the sound.

I will give it another 30 hours or so and re-evaluate.
Hi Ross
I have had both the Etna and now the Etna SL in the same system, off course not at the same time. The obvious difference is that the SL version is much more finicky when it comes to set up. I can easily detect if the VTF drifts from 1.72gm or more significant if the alignment is even a tad out. The latter accentuates what some may call the lean character of the Lyra but from experience I don’t buy the leaness bit having owned a succession of Lyra carts.
If you have crossed 30 hrs you should be over the breakin threshold. I am using the Lyra Erodion SUT into the MM input of my Nagra VPS and this is superior to to any other configuration ie the MC input with different loading(s) or even the Airtight SUT which has a 5 ohm and 30 ohm tap. I suspect the Lyra Erodion was designed for the Lyra SL series.
Comparisons between the Lady Anna and the Etna SL ? The Anna is a superb cart that does nothing wrong . It is clearly better, at least to my ears and sensibilities to the A95. The Etna SL is better in every parameter than the Anna, IMHO
Pradeep
 

rossb

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2017
68
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123
try it with the 6ohm tap. 3ohm might be constricting it.

I'm trying that now - it does seem to be marginally better.


Hi Ross
I have had both the Etna and now the Etna SL in the same system, off course not at the same time. The obvious difference is that the SL version is much more finicky when it comes to set up. I can easily detect if the VTF drifts from 1.72gm or more significant if the alignment is even a tad out. The latter accentuates what some may call the lean character of the Lyra but from experience I don’t buy the leaness bit having owned a succession of Lyra carts.
If you have crossed 30 hrs you should be over the breakin threshold. I am using the Lyra Erodion SUT into the MM input of my Nagra VPS and this is superior to to any other configuration ie the MC input with different loading(s) or even the Airtight SUT which has a 5 ohm and 30 ohm tap. I suspect the Lyra Erodion was designed for the Lyra SL series.
Comparisons between the Lady Anna and the Etna SL ? The Anna is a superb cart that does nothing wrong . It is clearly better, at least to my ears and sensibilities to the A95. The Etna SL is better in every parameter than the Anna, IMHO
Pradeep

Thanks, Pradeep. It sounds like I really need to persevere with the Etna SL. I will give it some more time, and then re-visit the set up to see if I can get some more improvements.
 

rossb

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2017
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An update: the Etna SL now has another 10-15 hours on it and has transformed completely. It has developed quite a full sound with a very sweet tonal balance. It is still not quite as dynamic as other cartridges (such as the Kuzma or VDH), but it compensates with a tonally rich, smooth and quite seductive sound. I am now starting to get what makes this cartridge so appealing.

It also sounds quite different to other cartridges I have owned - it does not seem to do razor sharp imaging, but voices and notes occupy a kind of individual tonal space, and collectively there is this continuous wall of rich, velvety sound. Very interesting, and also very nice!
 

XV-1

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
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An update: the Etna SL now has another 10-15 hours on it and has transformed completely. It has developed quite a full sound with a very sweet tonal balance. It is still not quite as dynamic as other cartridges (such as the Kuzma or VDH), but it compensates with a tonally rich, smooth and quite seductive sound. I am now starting to get what makes this cartridge so appealing.

It also sounds quite different to other cartridges I have owned - it does not seem to do razor sharp imaging, but voices and notes occupy a kind of individual tonal space, and collectively there is this continuous wall of rich, velvety sound. Very interesting, and also very nice!

That is good news. Still on the 6 ohm taps?
 

simoncui

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2014
12
0
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Yes, 6 ohms seems to work best.

Dear Rossb,

I also use EAR 912 with Lyra Kleos SL, for the setting of loading at EAR 912, I sent two email to EAR and Lyra STIG, they all suggested I should try to set EAR 912 on 12 Ohms instead of 6 Ohms, the gain setting you can try 0 db or -6 DB, if you really like 6 Ohms, I may suggest you try to set the gain setting to "- 6db" or "-12DB"

By the way, do you think about to sell your Enta SL to me :) ? , I am really interested in your Etna SL to upgrade my Kleos.~~ :):), if you plan to sell, please PM me, many thanks.

simon
 

rossb

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2017
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Simon, I've tried most of the different settings with the Etna SL and still prefer it at 6 ohms, with gain at -6db (just to avoid overload). The differences between the inputs once the volume was adjusted was actually pretty minimal.

I don't think I will be selling my Etna SL, sorry. However, I do have a Colibri I am thinking of moving on ...
 

Cascais

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2012
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I am almost decided to buy an Etna since I have been usiing a Lyra Skala for a few years and it seems a logical progression not to mention the Lyra trade-in incentive. I like the Skala very much but would like a little more detail and what they call slam. Can anyone compare the two Lyra cartridges?
 

XV-1

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
3,591
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I am almost decided to buy an Etna since I have been usiing a Lyra Skala for a few years and it seems a logical progression not to mention the Lyra trade-in incentive. I like the Skala very much but would like a little more detail and what they call slam. Can anyone compare the two Lyra cartridges?

I have not heard the Skala however Slam os not what I would say is the Etnas strength. Coherency, extension, see through detail and 3d soundstage are the Etnas strengths imo. It still has articulate bass, but if you want slam and dynamics, Atlas is your man.
 

Cascais

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2012
257
2
150
Portugal
I have not heard the Skala however Slam os not what I would say is the Etnas strength. Coherency, extension, see through detail and 3d soundstage are the Etnas strengths imo. It still has articulate bass, but if you want slam and dynamics, Atlas is your man.

The qualities you describe in the Etna are more important to me than slam. Thanks for your reply, very helpful.
 

XV-1

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
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The qualities you describe in the Etna are more important to me than slam. Thanks for your reply, very helpful.

I think you will love the Etna then. It is a wonderful transducer.

standard or SL?
 

Cascais

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2012
257
2
150
Portugal
I think you will love the Etna then. It is a wonderful transducer.

standard or SL?

Probably be satisfied with the standard Etna since my main listening source is CD, but I will be consulting with my dealer.
 

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