David Berning Quadrature Z

egidius

Member Sponsor
Feb 13, 2011
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I am a long term user of David Berning amplification.
Having owned the ZH270 since the late nineties, I added the ZH230 and Zotl Pre into my system, using the venerable Micro Zotl with my Jecklin Float E'static Headphones.
Not trying to boast, but giving background, also explaining that I might be biased in favour of David Berning products or their sound aesthetics.
I am a violinist by profession, and a recording producer since a few years ago, so listening both for fun as for profession as well.

I have recently stumbled upon the Quadrature Z's, bought them (thank you Wilfred!) and have now used them the last two days extensively: They are really all their fame is about. Considering that I usually get along fine with 30Watts - or, rather my speakers do - I was amazed at the finesse the Q'z added to the sound. Especially the end of sounds were so clarifying, I did not know that about recorded sounds before.

Obviously two days is nothing, so I will pipe up in about a month again, but for now: Hats off to David Berning !!

My question: Who has heard these monoblocs? What's your experience with them?
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
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Congrats!! I have never heard, but not for lack of trying! I was actually interested in buying a pair if i could hear them, but the audition pair was with a reviewer for literally nearly the entire year. I gave up and also came across a 2nd hand Gryphon.

I have spoken with a fellow Wilson X owner who uses the Quad Zs, and has never ever thought about switching. A clarity, alacrity, speed and incredible ability to sort out minute musical cues and details...that was how he described it to me. And as you say, given its power (200 watts), it never seems to run out of power either.

I really look forward to reading more about your impressions with these apparently legendary and magnificent amps...i have only read superlatives about them from the very few who have heard them. Congrats...a big win for you.

I am always particularly interested in your comments, given your background as a professional violinist as well. Look forward to reading more.
 

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 3, 2014
5,778
6,820
1,400
the Upper Midwest
I am a long term user of David Berning amplification.
Having owned the ZH270 since the late nineties, I added the ZH230 and Zotl Pre into my system, using the venerable Micro Zotl with my Jecklin Float E'static Headphones.
Not trying to boast, but giving background, also explaining that I might be biased in favour of David Berning products or their sound aesthetics.
I am a violinist by profession, and a recording producer since a few years ago, so listening both for fun as for profession as well.

I have recently stumbled upon the Quadrature Z's, bought them (thank you Wilfred!) and have now used them the last two days extensively: They are really all their fame is about. Considering that I usually get along fine with 30Watts - or, rather my speakers do - I was amazed at the finesse the Q'z added to the sound. Especially the end of sounds were so clarifying, I did not know that about recorded sounds before.

Obviously two days is nothing, so I will pipe up in about a month again, but for now: Hats off to David Berning !!

My question: Who has heard these monoblocs? What's your experience with them?

I had a pair for a couple weeks loaner from friend on vacation. Quite possibly the fastest, highest resolution amps I've heard in my room.
I could tell Dusty brushed with Ipana, not the Colgate. Surprising low frequency strength.
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,411
2,509
1,448
I had a pair for a couple weeks loaner from friend on vacation. Quite possibly the fastest, highest resolution amps I've heard in my room.
I could tell Dusty brushed with Ipana, not the Colgate. Surprising low frequency strength.

I read the Roy Gregory review with great interest...where he made some comparisons with the Conrad Johnson LP275 monos (their reference monos at the time). I think he felt the CJ had the most vibrant palette of tonal colors, the Karan Class A SS amps the most solid foundation, and the Quad Zs the most intimate, filigreed and nuanced presentation of not only music but the details of a musician's performance (almost to given insight into fingering, key pressure, etc).

Based on any other experience you might have, does that seem like an appropriate commentary?
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
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A quotation from Roy Gregory's review in HiFi+ (not too bad having made my comment above basically from memory of this review going back probably 6 years.)

"The Bernings ability to drive awkward loads is unproven, and they’ll probably need more careful speaker matching than the other amps in their class. They lack
the sumptuous warmth and colours of the c-j LP-M 275s, the textural intimacy and phrasing of the STRATOS, the rock-like stability, separation and staging of the big Karans. But if you want to hear a player’s technique and immerse yourself in the structure and inner relationships of a performance then I can think of no finer tool
for the job than the Quadrature Z. Quick, capable and almost intuitively direct in its communication, this is an amplifier than can beguile, astonish and thrill...."
 

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
6,261
4,040
995
Utah
A quotation from Roy Gregory's review in HiFi+ (not too bad having made my comment above basically from memory of this review going back probably 6 years.)

"The Bernings ability to drive awkward loads is unproven, and they’ll probably need more careful speaker matching than the other amps in their class. They lack
the sumptuous warmth and colours of the c-j LP-M 275s, the textural intimacy and phrasing of the STRATOS, the rock-like stability, separation and staging of the big Karans. But if you want to hear a player’s technique and immerse yourself in the structure and inner relationships of a performance then I can think of no finer tool
for the job than the Quadrature Z. Quick, capable and almost intuitively direct in its communication, this is an amplifier than can beguile, astonish and thrill...."

And this is what we call J-I-B-B-E-R-I-S-H! :D

Like most things the man has written, this is another meaningless sample of hyperbole, what do you walk away with here besides three amplifiers that suck and are incomplete in their presentation?

david
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,411
2,509
1,448
And this is what we call J-I-B-B-E-R-I-S-H! :D

Like most things the man has written, this is another meaningless sample of hyperbole, what do you walk away with here besides three amplifiers that suck and are incomplete in their presentation?

david

Hi David...nothing if not forthright! :) Having read your comments, seen your system and been the beneficiary of advice from you offline, i heed your strong words carefully. I have not heard any of these amps, but certainly have heard good things about the latest CJ monos and the Quad Zs.

In any event, thanks for chiming in here.
 

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
6,261
4,040
995
Utah
Hi David...nothing if not forthright! :) Having read your comments, seen your system and been the beneficiary of advice from you offline, i heed your strong words carefully. I have not heard any of these amps, but certainly have heard good things about the latest CJ monos and the Quad Zs.

In any event, thanks for chiming in here.

Hi Lloyd,

I was commenting on Roy Gregory's review, not the amps! My only experience with Berning electronics was with his car systems which I liked quite a bit.

david
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
6,455
29
405
A quotation from Roy Gregory's review in HiFi+ (not too bad having made my comment above basically from memory of this review going back probably 6 years.)

"The Bernings ability to drive awkward loads is unproven, and they’ll probably need more careful speaker matching than the other amps in their class. They lack
the sumptuous warmth and colours of the c-j LP-M 275s, the textural intimacy and phrasing of the STRATOS, the rock-like stability, separation and staging of the big Karans. But if you want to hear a player’s technique and immerse yourself in the structure and inner relationships of a performance then I can think of no finer tool
for the job than the Quadrature Z. Quick, capable and almost intuitively direct in its communication, this is an amplifier than can beguile, astonish and thrill...."

And this is what we call J-I-B-B-E-R-I-S-H! :D

Like most things the man has written, this is another meaningless sample of hyperbole, what do you walk away with here besides three amplifiers that suck and are incomplete in their presentation?

david

:D

Thank you David!
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,411
2,509
1,448
Hi Lloyd,

I was commenting on Roy Gregory's review, not the amps! My only experience with Berning electronics was with his car systems which I liked quite a bit.

david

Got it! thanks, David.
 

egidius

Member Sponsor
Feb 13, 2011
430
5
923
Switzerland
Hi Lloyd,

I was commenting on Roy Gregory's review, not the amps! My only experience with Berning electronics was with his car systems which I liked quite a bit.

david
..ah yes, that's the one I have not tried. Somehow, my 20 year old volvo 960 would not quite take to it, as it is purely utilitarian. so I stick to home electronics..

Well, I have not really read the reviews. But the amps are good.
Others I liked to give some context: CJ Premier 11A, Accuphase E550, Pathos TT, Einstein "absolute tune" (still wonder if it was fantastic, or a tad cold), and now we are getting really good: Sugden Masterclass power amp, Bernings, and as an alternative the incredible Audio Consulting MIPA 30. Still, I think the Q'z does it for me. But I said, I'd be quiet for a month and listen..
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,411
2,509
1,448
..ah yes, that's the one I have not tried. Somehow, my 20 year old volvo 960 would not quite take to it, as it is purely utilitarian. so I stick to home electronics..

Well, I have not really read the reviews. But the amps are good.
Others I liked to give some context: CJ Premier 11A, Accuphase E550, Pathos TT, Einstein "absolute tune" (still wonder if it was fantastic, or a tad cold), and now we are getting really good: Sugden Masterclass power amp, Bernings, and as an alternative the incredible Audio Consulting MIPA 30. Still, I think the Q'z does it for me. But I said, I'd be quiet for a month and listen..

Instinctively, i feel that given your comments over the many years, i think you may find this amp beguiling given that it supposedly is particularly revealing of details in the way instruments are played, etc...very good on timing due to speed...as a musician, you might appreciate those finer details quite a lot. All pure speculation on a Monday nite just for fun, since i've never heard these legendary amps.

So look forward to hearing back from you in about a month or so...enjoy!
 

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
6,261
4,040
995
Utah
..ah yes, that's the one I have not tried. Somehow, my 20 year old volvo 960 would not quite take to it, as it is purely utilitarian. so I stick to home electronics..

I had them in the 90's, when your Volvo was still new :)! Its very difficult to install stereo systems in cars anymore...

david
 

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 3, 2014
5,778
6,820
1,400
the Upper Midwest
I had a pair for a couple weeks loaner from friend on vacation. Quite possibly the fastest, highest resolution amps I've heard in my room. ...


I read the Roy Gregory review with great interest...where he made some comparisons with the Conrad Johnson LP275 monos (their reference monos at the time). I think he felt the CJ had the most vibrant palette of tonal colors, the Karan Class A SS amps the most solid foundation, and the Quad Zs the most intimate, filigreed and nuanced presentation of not only music but the details of a musician's performance (almost to given insight into fingering, key pressure, etc).

Based on any other experience you might have, does that seem like an appropriate commentary?

Cannot speak to the Karan amps. And while I haven't read that review I'll say "yes", from what you shared - Roy's remarks seem entirely appropriate.

I had a long love affair with CJ; here it is warmer with rich tonal depth, great low-end weight though not quite as resolved on the bottom. In that vintage they'd cast off their brief love affair with the 6H30 and returned to the 6922 driver which brought them back closer to their golden years. The Quad Z was faster, less colored, more and highly resolving, with crisper leading edge with finer decay. On the topic of speaker matching I'd agree the CJ owner may have fewer off-the-cuff concerns. The question of whether the Quad-Z is a true OTL remains under debate depending on whom you ask, but it's fair to say it is OTL-similar with some of the same OTL concerns. Generally the Z will enjoy higher efficiency nominally 8-Ohm speakers, though that's not to say it can't perform well when matched otherwise. Tube rolling improves both amps. The Quad Z responded *very* well to better 6SN7s (NOS Ken-Rad, Sylvania, & RCA).
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,411
2,509
1,448
Cannot speak to the Karan amps. And while I haven't read that review I'll say "yes", from what you shared - Roy's remarks seem entirely appropriate.

I had a long love affair with CJ; here it is warmer with rich tonal depth, great low-end weight though not quite as resolved on the bottom. In that vintage they'd cast off their brief love affair with the 6H30 and returned to the 6922 driver which brought them back closer to their golden years. The Quad Z was faster, less colored, more and highly resolving, with crisper leading edge with finer decay. On the topic of speaker matching I'd agree the CJ owner may have fewer off-the-cuff concerns. The question of whether the Quad-Z is a true OTL remains under debate depending on whom you ask, but it's fair to say it is OTL-similar with some of the same OTL concerns. Generally the Z will enjoy higher efficiency nominally 8-Ohm speakers, though that's not to say it can't perform well when matched otherwise. Tube rolling improves both amps. The Quad Z responded *very* well to better 6SN7s (NOS Ken-Rad, Sylvania, & RCA).

Thanks for the comments. Very interesting. I wonder how the latest CJ ART amps compare to the Quad Zs...the comparison i have heard indicate the latest CJ reference amps as having a far lower noise floor, greater detail/decay and potentially an even more evenly delivered palette of tones across the spectrum.

In any event, thanks for the comparison with CJ. You speak of a long love affair with CJ. I myself have had a CJ preamp in my system consecutively for over 15 years now. I have had only 1 CJ amp, the magical MV60.
 

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 3, 2014
5,778
6,820
1,400
the Upper Midwest
Thanks for the comments. Very interesting. I wonder how the latest CJ ART amps compare to the Quad Zs...the comparison i have heard indicate the latest CJ reference amps as having a far lower noise floor, greater detail/decay and potentially an even more evenly delivered palette of tones across the spectrum.

In any event, thanks for the comparison with CJ. You speak of a long love affair with CJ. I myself have had a CJ preamp in my system consecutively for over 15 years now. I have had only 1 CJ amp, the magical MV60.

Yes, the MV-60 was a sweetheart. I too had a long run - over twenty years - with their preamps. PV-5 to PV-8 to Premier 16LS to the ACT2. My favorite was the Premier 16 - the baby ART. Premier 12 monoblocks and Premier 140 amps. Still have the PV-8 and it still sounds great though I don't use it regularly.

Sadly, I haven't heard CJ's most recent gear. It wouldn't surprise me if their newer amps are greatly improved from what I knew though their basic architecture seems not that different, with gains coming from different tubes and better parts. In general the hallmark of an OTL amp (I'm more familiar with Atma-Sphere than Berning) is transparency, clarity and speed. I found OTL tonality rich with harmonics, more toward neutral, which in my lexicon means less obviously colored but by no means lean or analytic. FWIW, years back I reviewed the little Atma-Sphere amps with the CJ Premier 140 in brief comparison. You have a very nice system!
 

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