Both liberals and conservatives claim the press is biased to the other sides position. The other side receives far to much air time and is rarely challenged.. They know this to be true because any idiot can recognize the validity of their position. The country is headed for damnation unless they adopt our position. It is a sign of the tomes.
Rename the "Science of Audio" forum
- Thread starter rbbert
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It doesn't really matter what it's called, tomelex, as long as the name keeps out the riff-raff. The reason I suggested "Measurements-based" was because I thought it would be sufficient to make the rest of us run screaming in the other direction, and you would be free to have the conversations you want over there! 
Joking aside, I think many of us, myself included, fancy ourselves as having some science knowledge, and anyone who has ever wired a plug fancies themselves as having some engineering knowledge, so you'll do well to keep discourse at a high level in that forum. If the real point is "No subjective opinions allowed" then it may take some time and some heavy moderation for that message to get through.
Joking aside, I think many of us, myself included, fancy ourselves as having some science knowledge, and anyone who has ever wired a plug fancies themselves as having some engineering knowledge, so you'll do well to keep discourse at a high level in that forum. If the real point is "No subjective opinions allowed" then it may take some time and some heavy moderation for that message to get through.
It doesn't really matter what it's called, tomelex, as long as the name keeps out the riff-raff. The reason I suggested "Measurements-based" was because I thought it would be sufficient to make the rest of us run screaming in the other direction, and you would be free to have the conversations you want over there!
Joking aside, I think many of us, myself included, fancy ourselves as having some science knowledge, and anyone who has ever wired a plug fancies themselves as having some engineering knowledge, so you'll do well to keep discourse at a high level in that forum. If the real point is "No subjective opinions allowed" then it may take some time and some heavy moderation for that message to get through.
yes, as a rule subjectivists are a bit slow on the uptake
I'm not trying to single you or your post out, almost any of several preceding posts would have served as well. I think this is an excellent example of the scientific illiteracy all too prevalent in the USA (realizing that many of the forum's members are from other countries); the idea that being able to measure something, ideally with an electronic instrument, makes it "scientific" and therefore more valid than observations made and recorded in some other way. For another example, and this one does single you out tomelex, no scientist would ever imagine, much less say, that we can measure everything about any complex physical phenomenon (such as audio reproduction); OTOH an engineer might.
I will be steering well away from this area of the Site what ever it is called, but i do think that Diapasons suggested Titel best reflects what is actually supposed to be discussed. It also makes it clear for those who do not wish to partake in such endless discussions.
yes, as a rule subjectivists are a bit slow on the uptake
"How ironic, considering that most of the measurement crowd dont seem to get what its all about" would be a nice counter opinion to that....
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As in; you would like to have everyone who actually listens to their audio equipment leave the Forum so you can take all of it over?
"How ironic, considering that most of the measurement crowd dont seem to get what its all about" would be a nice counter opinion to that....
Yes. Some people are born to argue. Rather than listening to music, appreciating how good cables improve audio performance, and other areas, they would rather argue people are delusional. Go figure.
Also ironic is the fact that we used to have people here with graduate degrees in science who posted on a regular basis; they have been driven out (not my opinion, theirs) by the non-scientist "measurement" crowd."How ironic, considering that most of the measurement crowd dont seem to get what its all about" would be a nice counter opinion to that....
First off, this forum doesn't belong to me. So, I totally respect Steve's decisions concerning his forum.
The FKA Science forum was suppossed to be a place where objectivist leaning music lovers could post free from the usual objectivist vs. subjectivist fights. To me, an objectivist is one who primarily seeks an evidence based explanation for whatever inquiry they make. An objectivist is interested in data which is derived from some place other than their own brain/ear system. This is the core distinction between the two camps. Although the subjectivist may consider data, they primarily understand the world in terms of their own perception. In the event objective data conflicts with their pereception, the subjectivist will likely side with their own perception and question the objective data.
I realize that sometimes this data is in the form of a measurement. However, it is not always a measurement. For example, there are no measurements included in double blind testing. However, an objectivist would be interested in the results of a good double blind test. I think topics concerning subconscious influence and plecebo effect should/could be covered in this subforum as well. Of course, those topics don't involve measurement either. So, I think it's a bit reductionist to call the FKA Science subforum, the "measurement" subforum. That would be like calling an iphone a "texting device."
Wouldn't it fit a little better and also promote wider discussion of objectivist ideas to call the subforum the "Objective Evidence" subforum?
The FKA Science forum was suppossed to be a place where objectivist leaning music lovers could post free from the usual objectivist vs. subjectivist fights. To me, an objectivist is one who primarily seeks an evidence based explanation for whatever inquiry they make. An objectivist is interested in data which is derived from some place other than their own brain/ear system. This is the core distinction between the two camps. Although the subjectivist may consider data, they primarily understand the world in terms of their own perception. In the event objective data conflicts with their pereception, the subjectivist will likely side with their own perception and question the objective data.
I realize that sometimes this data is in the form of a measurement. However, it is not always a measurement. For example, there are no measurements included in double blind testing. However, an objectivist would be interested in the results of a good double blind test. I think topics concerning subconscious influence and plecebo effect should/could be covered in this subforum as well. Of course, those topics don't involve measurement either. So, I think it's a bit reductionist to call the FKA Science subforum, the "measurement" subforum. That would be like calling an iphone a "texting device."
Wouldn't it fit a little better and also promote wider discussion of objectivist ideas to call the subforum the "Objective Evidence" subforum?
No, because then one must define "objective evidence", and that may well take up a whole forum by itself. What a judge might consider "objective evidence" might not be considered such by a scientist, and vice-versa. I trust no one needs examples of this?
I didn't realize you had such an interest in the Objective Evidence approach to music reproduction.
I doubt anyone would care what I think the "Audio Tweaks" forum should be called. I know I would have another name for that too.
I'm very interested in the objective approach to audio reproduction, it's where my natural interests and biases lie. The fact that I hold most of what is going on in the Measurement... Forum in contempt should give you a clue about how far away from meaningful information gathering are most posters there
Edit: let's face it, nearly all of us here are amateurs. Manufacturers and designers certainly have access to far more useful objective information and measurements than we do, but for any number of reasons (proprietary, lack of correlation, etc) aren't likely to share much of it. Sure, there is some snake oil out there, but I'm not sure anyone posting here has the requisite knowledge, experience, equipment or resources to succesfully discriminate true audio advances that are outside the mainstream from said "snake oil"
Edit: let's face it, nearly all of us here are amateurs. Manufacturers and designers certainly have access to far more useful objective information and measurements than we do, but for any number of reasons (proprietary, lack of correlation, etc) aren't likely to share much of it. Sure, there is some snake oil out there, but I'm not sure anyone posting here has the requisite knowledge, experience, equipment or resources to succesfully discriminate true audio advances that are outside the mainstream from said "snake oil"
...I doubt anyone would care what I think the "Audio Tweaks" forum should be called. I know I would have another name for that too.
And yet you bought the Jitterbug and the Regen?
Perhaps, Michael, you should ask for yet another new forum to be created for things like blind testing. I would bet that at least 99% of participants there would have no clue about how to evaluate the validity of any DBT's, or even SBT's, mentioned
Hello sir, I have no clue to what you are referring @...could you please draw me a precise map?
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