Speaker Oasis...Bionor
- Thread starter ALF
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Or maybe I could just buy a pair of headphones? Radical!
Anyhow, there's something in the "purity" of that single Denman.
Really no point talking about it, it officially doesn't exist anymore, I think we were the only two dedicated audio guys who heard it (the museum exhibiting it was guilty of the worst promotion for any important public event in memory).
But in my proposed space it in some ways would be an amazing fit.
Back to the Real World...
spiritofmusic: "It's like death by marshmallow as the soundfield reaches out and hugs you."
I like that!
I like that!
Yes Ron, but nothing actually "oversweet" re the sound. More the sweetness you get w/natural tonality wrt unmolested unamplified acoustic instruments.
You've never heard sound so tactile. Everything else I've heard is just playing at playing music.
Even though it won't happen, I've got a once in a lifetime opportunity to consider it w/my 45' long proposed loft space, which could accommodate the 27' long horn, giving me up to 18' to sit back from the 7'x5' horn mouth.
You've never heard sound so tactile. Everything else I've heard is just playing at playing music.
Even though it won't happen, I've got a once in a lifetime opportunity to consider it w/my 45' long proposed loft space, which could accommodate the 27' long horn, giving me up to 18' to sit back from the 7'x5' horn mouth.
If this is your dream speaker system then absolutely you should get it! What is the problem?
Keith is probably kidding. But if that were my dream speaker system I would do this. (I am not kidding.) And if you do not want the speakers extending outside the house just keep them entirely in the loft as you specify in post #47.
This Denman would be a bit of a mirage, guys.It doesn't actually currently exist, the single example in the world somewhere in cold storage. At 27' long, it could start at on end of the loft, and I could still sit up to 18' from the horn mouth, so no need for it to be outside the house.
Keith, it's a MONO spkr, that's a major part of it's appeal. W/a horn mouth of 7'x5', you really don't need two of them, y'r just bathed in a glorious amorphous soundfield. True surround sound from a SINGLE transducer.
Maybe more critically, the WE driver needs to be field coil driven, they were using a bespoke 0.5W (!!!) amp (to fill a space of 250 square metres) (!!!!!).
Even more critically, as a single full range driver, w/no x'over, it handilly goes down to 30Hz, but practically only up to 7kHz - but mysteriously, "shards" of treble at 11kHz had been measured intermittently.
So, here you have a radical transducer that doesn't fill out those highs. And yet I nothing was "missing" when material was played that had higher frequency percussion.
Keith, it's a MONO spkr, that's a major part of it's appeal. W/a horn mouth of 7'x5', you really don't need two of them, y'r just bathed in a glorious amorphous soundfield. True surround sound from a SINGLE transducer.
Maybe more critically, the WE driver needs to be field coil driven, they were using a bespoke 0.5W (!!!) amp (to fill a space of 250 square metres) (!!!!!).
Even more critically, as a single full range driver, w/no x'over, it handilly goes down to 30Hz, but practically only up to 7kHz - but mysteriously, "shards" of treble at 11kHz had been measured intermittently.
So, here you have a radical transducer that doesn't fill out those highs. And yet I nothing was "missing" when material was played that had higher frequency percussion.
At that long it should not be crossed that high, let alone without it. Another matter, listening to stereo recording through ONE driver/one channel only is short of missing half of the materials/recording unless you are playing mono recording all the time. Two drivers connected L n R in a single horn is a different story.
Hope you will settle with the house soon. Happy spinning.
I think it was the WE 555 driverdriver.
The WE 16a mono has cross firing two channels inside, but only one mouth. So people who are trying to extrapolate their stereo experience to imagining what will happen if only one speaker was playing, would not be guessing right. You need to hear that 16a mono. It was the first speaker built, to address an audience of 800 in cinemas, and sounds the same at the corners of the first row and straight at the back. It is incredible off axis, haven't heard anything like it. The guy in Leipzig has it on the long wall in a factory like warehouse so you can walk all around and there is music everywhere
Marc,
Your question isn't that straight forward because there are many variables. Certainly listening to a well implemented mono system can be a wonderful experience. First off the FR for even the largest WE is nowhere near what you quoted above, typically between 5khz to max 8khz depending on the driver and condition and between around 90hz-130hz at the low end, again depending on horn and driver. Within that range a WE speaker is nearly unbeatable and very, very special but you have to know what you're doing and what you're buying. A reproduction GIP based system is nothing like the original and unless you listen exclusively to mono recordings you have to mix your stereo albums down to mono; there are different ways of doing that and the results aren't the same
. Simply put if you got the expertise it can be heaven if not, its a fast chute to hell...david
Hi yes, 2 drivers, one horn mouth. No stereo image, but real image and soundstage. Strangely enough, a stereo listener will not feel weird with the 16A, but he may even get better the image and soundstage he was trying to get so hard by changing the toe in and placement of his stereo speakers.
Mono, it is the best kind; real and tangable...as real as the actual event.
Anyway that you can get it is super!
Cheers!
Alan
This is my first post and I don't expect any responses considering the age of this thread but...
I just have to say that I love this line: "It's like death by marshmallow as the soundfield reaches out and hugs you." I've been trying for this sort of soundfield for most of my years in this hobby. When I talk to most audiophiles about this they don't even get what I'm after. Perhaps I'll try the "marshmallow" analogy rather than saying things like "having the speakers load/pressurize the room"; "having the sound come at you from the musicians rather than sit behind the speaker plane"; "having the music fill the room."
I bought my current speakers, in part, because they sometimes filled the small room that I had auditioned them in. I've owned them for a few years now and while I'm still generally pleased with them in other respects, I realize that they only fill the room/create the soundfield I want on certain frequencies.
I'm limited by space (I live in a condo) and, to a lesser extent, by budget so speakers like the Bionors are simply not an option.
I just have to say that I love this line: "It's like death by marshmallow as the soundfield reaches out and hugs you." I've been trying for this sort of soundfield for most of my years in this hobby. When I talk to most audiophiles about this they don't even get what I'm after. Perhaps I'll try the "marshmallow" analogy rather than saying things like "having the speakers load/pressurize the room"; "having the sound come at you from the musicians rather than sit behind the speaker plane"; "having the music fill the room."
I bought my current speakers, in part, because they sometimes filled the small room that I had auditioned them in. I've owned them for a few years now and while I'm still generally pleased with them in other respects, I realize that they only fill the room/create the soundfield I want on certain frequencies.
I'm limited by space (I live in a condo) and, to a lesser extent, by budget so speakers like the Bionors are simply not an option.
Last edited:
This is my first post and I don't expect any responses considering the age of this thread but...
I just have to say that I love this line: "It's like death by marshmallow as the soundfield reaches out and hugs you." I've been trying for this sort of soundfield for most of my years in this hobby. When I talk to most audiophiles about this they don't even get what I'm after. Perhaps I'll try the "marshmallow" analogy rather than saying things like "having the speakers load/pressurize the room"; "having the sound come at you from the musicians rather than sit behind the speaker plane"; "having the music fill the room."
I bought my current speakers in part, because they sometimes filled the small room that I had auditioned them in before buying them. I've owned them for a few years now and while I'm still generally pleased with them in other respects, I realize that they only fill the room/create the soundfield I want on certain frequencies.
I'm limited by space (I live in a condo) and, to a lesser extent, by budget so speakers like the Bionors are simply not an option.
Hi Exlibris,
I've been doing this for more than 18 years now and shoe horned quite a few horn systems into Manhattan apartments with great success. I gained a lot of experience over the years the difficult part is getting the bass right and depending on the room we have various solutions and speakers we can offer. This past July we did a very special install in New York using Bionor's drivers and horns but with a different bass solution, still a horn bass but more suited to their 10' x 19' x 8' listening room. I'm extremely proud of this system, a very close sound to the Bionor but the full experience in a very small and difficult room and if desired can you can flood the entire apartment with gorgeous sound by just opening the door. Cost wise its compared to modern speakers is equivalent to current middle and upper middle high end pricing but sound wise it's in a different league.
david
I have photos but they're from his room and I don't have permission to share them in public. Contact me offline, damokallc@mac.com and I'll try to put you in touch with the owner directly.
david
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