Has anyone heard the Devialet D-Premier Integrated Amp/DAC

bernardl

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Nov 11, 2010
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Gentlemen,

I thought I'd inform that my Int202 has arrived. It is connected to the Devialet using a second hand Wireworld Platinium starlight AES/EBU cable.

The source is a 2010 mac mini with HD replaced by an OWC SSD and 8GB ram. I am using PureMusic 1.7 as software. Music is stored in an external USB fanless Lacie 2TB disk. I control the Mac mini through a wireless VNC session using the screen of an old iMac located in a more convenient location in the same room. Works perfect and allows me to have access to the iTunes interface to select music.

I have tried to play through it a variety of files ranging from ripped CDs to 192Khz digital masters from Linn. So far I am impressed by the detail, dynamic and purity of the sound! I don't think it can get much better than this considering the speaker I own and the room the set up is used in.

Cheers,
Bernard
 

LL21

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i have heard the Devialet on a pair of CLXs and Wilsons sashas. i have heard these speakers in the same room with ARC, CJ, Krell, Pathos, MBL, and a number of other sets of electronics over the years. In a word, the Devialet is excellent. more specifically, i find the tonality to be suprisingly warm while providing ample power at moderate levels to control the bass. very pure sound (whatever that means!) (btw, i did not crank the volume, so cannot say how far the amp will keep going). Given its dimunitive size, full feature-set...it captures a bit of the B&O design/convenience with a clear aim of targeting the pure audiophile. it is not inexpensive...but whereas on B&O equipment i very clearly feel much of the purchase price is going into visual design, i sense that for the money, you really get extremely good value in sound with the devialet. plus it is virtually plug and play.

i cannot remember who it was...a reviewer writing about the CJ Act 2 preamp, believe...but "magic is expensive". And if you are looking to get significantly more magic in your system than the devialet, (imho) you are going to have to work at it pretty hard and (generally) spend some really big money. i am not saying it cannot be done for cheaper...i am confident it can...but you will have to be even more dedicated about synergy between components to match this Devialet. i would not trade my electronics for it...but i have been fortunate to be able to collect my electronics s/hand over years patiently waiting...Zanden DAC into CJ ACT 2 pre into Gryphon Antileon. but if i did not wish to go thru the brain damage of building a system over years, this is the first component that made me think about going the "simple, one-stop" route.
 

fas42

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It's interesting that the "magic is expensive" belief system seems to be so pervasive in this hobby. Agreed, expensive components CAN be better engineered, but frequently aren't. It will be easier to reach "magic" with better sorted out componentry, but relatively low cost equipment, even what many would consider mediocre stuff, can be made to achieve remarkable results. The key is attention to detail, repeated over and over again, eliminating every weakness in the setup.

The other interesting term is "synergy": in my experience, this means a setup which by good fortune or guidance from on high or wherever, has resulted in more of the key weaknesses being got rid of or minimised.

Frank
 

LL21

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yes. synergy is important...almost more imporant than buying "prestige" components with no synergy whatsover. imho, finding components that work well together to produce music is the goal...but oftentimes, i find is easier said than done. i have been fortunate to find a few. i agree that expensive does not translate into synergy...it translates into expensive. however, i also find that the components i have favored...Zanden, CJ, Gryphon, Transparent Reference...tend to be on the more expensive...again, not all expensive products produce good synergy...but i find on a standalone basis, the few components i have really favored have cost more...and of course, if i can find favorite products that also have synergy...then i am really happy....
 

fas42

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lloydelee21, it's excellent that you have components that give you what you call synergy; if you feel the system is as good as you can possibly imagine it to be, then congratulations, you must be a happy man! Otherwise, if you still feel there are weaknesses in there, you have a bit of a dilemma. The weaknesses are frequently buried inside those very expensive components, and unless you get under the hood and get your hands dirty, the weaknesses will never really go away, just be compensated for to some degree. Obviously, hacking a pricey bit of gear is a very (monetarily) risky business unless you really know what you're doing!

The other technique, of course, is to keep swapping one expensive bit of kit with the next, in the often vain hope that this, yes, this one, will bring nirvana!

Frank
 

iansr

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Dec 27, 2010
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lloydelee21, I've read with interest about Gryphon amps but never heard one. I'm a big believer in the superiority of pure class A amplification (I have a pair of First Watt F4s) and I like Gryphon's apparent design philosophy. So I'd be very interested to hear what other amps you have heard/owned and how the Antileon compares?
 

LL21

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Hi fas42, i have owned 3 systems in the last 20+ years which i considered "fully evolved". the first 2 systems were eventually fully replaced...but because i buy s/hand only, it often take a few years to finish the evolution. i find that i was fortunate to get "magic"/synergy with each one...within their physical limitations. that is to say, i heard my little Celestion SL6si's sound better than i'd ever heard them sound before...and the system played to its strengths...but they were in no way, comparable to a full range speaker in numerous respects. So i think i differentiate technical capabilities with synergy. Finding great synergy for my little Celestion would never give them full-range dynamic capability of my current speakers (Wilson X1/Grand Slamms)...but they had their own magic through the component mix (to my ears). What i have found in the more expensive equipment is that you get much, much more of the technical capability (my Wilsons are a good example relative to the Celestions)...however, if you do not mix the components right, you have a technically capable, non-musical mix...and to my ears, what's the point of that? Just an expensive mistake.

So if this is where you are coming from, i totally agree. My current system is all s/hand. i started assembling the various components one at a time from 2005/6...picking, trading in and choosing to "meld" into the system i had in mind. Aside from a transport/server (and possibly pre), the system is finally evolved. Whew!

As for swapping out fuses and other tweaks, i have found a few that work very well (EAT tube dampers), etc. i have never tried upgrading fuses or other things...fear of being electrocuted mainly...but i agree...this is a passion that never ends its quest for sonic greatness...but enjoying the path of getting there is the point. Hence, equal focus on synergy with technical capabilities has been my own personal formula.
 

LL21

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lloydelee21, I've read with interest about Gryphon amps but never heard one. I'm a big believer in the superiority of pure class A amplification (I have a pair of First Watt F4s) and I like Gryphon's apparent design philosophy. So I'd be very interested to hear what other amps you have heard/owned and how the Antileon compares?

Hi Iansr,

over the years, i have heard/auditioned: Boulder 1080, Krell Evo Ones, 402, 302, FPB 600/700, ARC REf 110, MBL Monos 9010?, CJ mv60, Pathos, Mark Levinson (not 33H), Forte 4 (Class A), Aragon (designed by Dan D'Agostino), Unico, Linn, Meridien.

First, the Gryphon is tremendously powerful...effortless at every level on my Wilson X1 Grand Slamms...which are efficient at 95db 6-8ohm load...but which are nevertheless a big speaker to drive. You do not feel like you are going to run out of steam...and i like club music (at club levels occassionally). i also like orchestral, choral and other music which is very demanding.

Second, the Gryphon Antileon (i have not heard Colosseums...more on that in a second) is warm. Some people would say dark...i would agree...this hobby is as much about synergy as it is about individual components and their technical characteristics (see discussion above). In my system and to my ears, it has a tonal quality on piano that gets it about right (i studied piano for 12 years)...and piano is tough to get totally right.

Third, fwiw, since i have not heard Gryphon in other systems a lot, i can only add that the GM of a major audio distributor here (who does not sell Gryphon) and 2 major reviewers (who have not reviewed Gryphon) all had extremely complementary things to say about my Antileon. They each said it was one of their favorites over the years and still consider it a winnner today. (And they did have some less complimentary remarks about one of my other components...so i do not think they were just being polite when speaking of the Gryphon.)

Read the Ultra Audio review on the Gryphon Antileon by Jeff Fritz...i think it's a good one and delivers a very good sense of the amp...tonally warm, analogue. Just be careful about system matching. The Colosseums are apparently not as warm...but smoother, more effortless and by some accounts competitive with the best of the best of SS. i have spoken at length with an owner of Colosseums and someone who had a similar system to mine who auditioned the Colosseums and thought they were the best SS he had ever heard (and he owns SF Strads, CJ Premier 8s upgraded by CJ recently, and CJ ART 3...so you know he likes his analogue smooth sound.) hope that helps.
 

LL21

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Iansr,

Relative to the components i have heard that i listed, i would say that the Antileon bested my CJMV60 in delivering the tonality/warmth of female vocals, dramatically increased soundstage, and of course dynamics and bass were not close. The CJ is only a 60watt amp, so not a fair contest. i prefer it to the Boulder though i was surprised to find that it was smoother and less clinical than i had expected based on what people have told me (hence why everyone should hear for themselves). i found the Boulder very smooth in the treble, but i prefer a touch of warmth and the Gryphon gave me that. I found that the Krell Evo Ones were along a similar vein as the Boulder...somewhere in between Boulder perhaps and Gryphon but definitely closer to Boulder. Cleaner. I definitely preferred Antileon to ARC Ref 110 if only because i am a bass freak...and the control of the Gryphons is something else! I could not comment on ML because it has been too long ago. i have read someone's post who met with Andy Payor of Rockport who apparently uses Gryphon with his speakers (which i've heard and they are exceptional)...and apparently he told this person that the Gryphons are way ahead of the legendary ML 33H which he used to use in the past. hope that helps. good luck and post back if you've any other questions.
 

Phelonious Ponk

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This may be the most interesting "high-end" product (to me, anyway) since the Tact-T, but there are several core design features - upconverting of digital, converting of analog to digital, integration - that are not high-end approved and are likely to keep it from catching on with most audiophiles. More likely, the concept, if it still sounds better outside of its jewelry box, will be integrated into something much more mainstream, creating better-sounding cheap digital amplifier units in consumer electronics. That's fine. I have one of the early versions of the cheapo Panasonic AV receivers that are all digitial, using the same equibit amps from the Tact T and Lyngdorfs. I use active speakers, so the Equibits are no longer used, but I still use the receiver. The net result is that it is the low-rent version of the amp under discussion - it converts all in-coming signals, digital or analog, to 24/192 digital for processing, tone and volume control and most of the signal chain in the digital domain where there is no loss, no noise. Then, in this case, it converts back to analog through some unknown (to me) DAC chip and bumps the signal up to several hundred milliwatts through some unknown operational amplifier on it's way to my Sennheisers. Yes, I use it as a headphone amp. The results are impossible to deny with the cans on your head - incredible detail punches out of a deep black background with great dynamic authority and ungodly amounts of headroom. It is not cold or clinical. Just clean, revealing and true. It's not easy to admit this in audiophile company, but it's one of the best headphone amps I've heard, and I've heard quite a few. But I digress. All of that was to say I have some practical experience with some of the design principles of the amp under discussion, and they work remarkably well, even in a dirt-cheap product. I imagine this is a great amp.

Tim
 

marty

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I spent an hour at the Devialet demo at CES yesterday. Spectacular and a game changer is the best descriptor I can use to characterize my initial impressions. Used on a new 30K set of Focal 3 ways with Crystal speaker cable, the sound was among the best at the show. It is indeed strange, with a Class A driver stage with a Class D output stage. Built in phone stage, DAC, inout selectivity, and future options for DSP speaker or room mods in a gorgeous "audio jewelry" package for 15K left a good impression on all listeners regardless of material. I thought it was among the top highlights of the show, but most importantly, because the overwhelming story at this year's show was that affordability is the operative word. The old Hi-end, great music at astronomic costs, is now offically dead. There is so much good music at moderate prices that the paradigm shift is now complete. See my other post about CES. Can you spell M-A-G-N-E-P-L-A-N-A-R???
 

fas42

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lloydelee21, where I'm coming from is quite different from the vast majority of people in this hobby/business. I was fortunate enough very early in the piece (25 years ago!) to hear and understand what audio systems were REALLY capable of, and I have been beavering away on and off over the interim years to achieve a better understanding of what was going on, and how to ensure an excellent performance from a system every time. To get back on topic, the Devialet D-Premier; I am reading between the lines in the reports of its performance, and I would surmise that the designers have managed to get rid of most of those internal weaknesses ...

Some of my goals, and I would humbly suggest these would be worthwhile for others too, for a system are:

* No recording you have is a bad recording; every performance can be appreciated fully as a musical event because ALL disturbing distortion is EFFECTIVELY rendered inaudible or irrelevant. As examples, big band swing tracks from the early 1930's, primitively recorded blues artists, Jimi Hendrix in concert, current compressed to the max, in your face material
* To be able to play all those recordings at maximum volume, that is, just before the point where the amplifier starts clipping, with complete ease and "transparency"
* Irrespective of the volume that the speakers completely disappear in every sense; that is, no matter where you stand or sit in the room your ears can't pinpoint that sound is emerging from the drivers
* If you go to the furthest point in your home with the volume up, that the sound remains completely natural and realistic -- the LIAR (Listening In Another Room) test

Cheers,
Frank
 

LL21

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Frank,

I completely here you!! I respect your goals completely...i seek natural real music in my room, not specs, or specific details or special effects. It is also really refreshing to speak with someone who also does the LIAR test! i thought i was the only crazy one! I always go into the hallway or just outside my front door to hear if it sounds like someone is singing in the next room. And i love my Wilson's because (so far) they are the best i have experienced at sounding effortless at any volume...so my neighbors 2 floors down through solid concrete can "appreciate" it. (oops...)

As for playing any recording, i find most all of my recordings are musical thanks to my Zanden DAC and the Nordost Qx4 (love that thing whatever the heck it does)...i find it particularly fun now to enjoy tracks i never enjoyed before...but where i finally understand what the artist was doing thanks to the system playing it differently than i've ever heard it before...certain rhythms, tunes i never noticed before are suddenly there an easy to follow and appreciate.

But as always there's no perfectino!!! There is still distortion on old swing...so the best i get is that the distortion matters less to the musical message now. Also, because my speakers are in my living room (not dedicated sound room), i can identify them in the room. So still a ways to go!!! a never ending pursuit of passion!!! Enjoy yours!
 

fas42

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Tim, your experiences with the Panasonic receiver echo precisely my own with completely different equipment. If you eliminate most or all of the weakness in a piece of equipment, irrespective of its cost, then it will be capable of achieving seemingly miraculous results.

Frank
 

fas42

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lloydelee21,

Thanks for your thoughts! I'm pleased to hear that your system is doing so well, and giving you great pleasure.

As regards the old swing, that would be a good tool to check how the system is improving. Remarkable though it may seem, you can actually get your system to the point where those big brass section crescendos that may cause you to squirm now will become effortless, they will flow over you in a great waterfall of sound, in the same way as real instruments do. You will hear way, way back in the soundstage the drummer doing some nice cymbal work, and a very quiet piano in the distance will be as clear as the real thing.

All this is possible, but only if you eliminate all the little things that add unpleasant distortion to the sound, which in turn stops the ear/brain combination doing its job of ignoring the irrelevant sounds and creating a "this IS real" illusion. Typically, you don't need to change your components, just fix 'em up and connect them together better. The Devialet (on topic again!!) achieves this by doing virtually the whole thing in one box, makes it easier to get it right, if you know what you're doing ...

Cheers,
Frank
 

microstrip

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... It is indeed strange, with a Class A driver stage with a Class D output stage. ... ?

Marty,
I think it is much more complicated than that. According to Devialet:

"ADH (Analog/Digital Hybrid) is a new and patented form of amplification specially developed by Devialet. ADH (combines pure Class A operation with Class D, operating in parallel one with the other."

It seems that a low power class A (analog) supplies a "correction" to the power D amplifier at the output,

As they say " By combining Class A and Class D, Devialet has created what is says are electronics that deliver tremendous loudspeaker control and dynamic authority, yet the character of the sound you hear is pure Class A refinement. "
 

Phelonious Ponk

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I want some of whatever Frank is having!

Trouble is, lovely and ambitious as it may be, this "goal" is simply impossible:

No recording you have is a bad recording; every performance can be appreciated fully as a musical event because ALL disturbing distortion is EFFECTIVELY rendered inaudible or irrelevant. As examples, big band swing tracks from the early 1930's, primitively recorded blues artists, Jimi Hendrix in concert, current compressed to the max, in your face material
* To be able to play all those recordings at maximum volume, that is, just before the point where the amplifier starts clipping, with complete ease and "transparency"

I hate to be a killjoy, but anything in a reproduction system that would effectively render all disturbing distortion in the recording inaudible or irrelevant would create a masking effect on good recordings that would be devastating. If anything could do that at all. And of course it can't. The distortions in a crude recording from the early 1930s are very different from the ones in a brick-walled, juiced up, contemporary pop record. To even attempt to address all of the possible recording problems one could encounter from early blues and jazz records to the recording train wreck that is "Layla and Assorted Love Songs" to the balls to the wall unlistenable loudness of Springsteen's Magic would take a whole studio full of processing tools, not a playback system. And the attempt may improve things, but it would fall far short of the goal.

Hope springs eternal, Frank, but if you heard something 25 years ago that told you that's what playback systems are capable of, well, we all need some of what you're having. Do tell.

Tim
 

marty

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Micro,
Thanks for your clarifications. I found some other descriptors in the literature that are also helpful yet tantalizing (no IM distortion?) and which I don't really understand. But I really did like the sound I heard.
Marty
 

fas42

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I could say a good dose of single malt, but "I never tell the truth" ... ;-)

Please forgive that little indulgence -- it's been a long, extremely frustrating journey for me (sound familiar??) too. In fact, I gave the whole game away for fifteen years, didn't listen to anything that would be considered high end because it irritated me so intensely to listen to systems not working "properly". Especially very expensive and supposedly high performance ones. A favourite test CD of the time (and still is) was Status Quo's greatests hits, every other system I tried it on back then did a fantastic job of totally butchering it!

What happened 25 years ago was that I was doing the typical tweaking of the day, with a reasonable quality CD setup using a good, high powered NZ amp driven directly by the CD player. As the obsession got to me, I was getting more and more grease on my hands from getting under the hood, when bingo! I got the results mentioned above: no bad recording, speaker totally disappearing, etc, etc. This was totally unexpected, I didn't know what was going on: the big problem was that the "magic" was very transitory, was as slippery as, shall we say, "snake oil" in terms of evaporating. But I knew what I had heard ...

I have actually given away many of the clues already on postings here, and numerous ones on Audiogon. And the solution in summary is, attention to detail.

Sounds so trite, doesn't it? Unfortunately, doesn't stop it being true! The trouble is, being meticulous takes a lot of effort and insight and you have to be terribly, terribly persistent. And if you're not, you'll never quite get there. I have used the analogy elsewhere of the swimming pool with leaks: no matter how well you engineer it, if there is a leak somewhere your water will drain away ... and your system won't sound quite right.

Why you can listen to so-called lousy recordings and thoroughly enjoy them, is the marvellous fact that your ear/brain is in fact very forgiving: if you give it just enough of the "good" stuff, call it low level details of the musical event, and stop just enough of the "bad" stuff, unpleasant low level distortion, getting through then your head can play a brilliant trick on you -- the musical event sounds real, irrespective of room treatments, where you are, loudness, etc, etc.

The hard bit is that you MUST be absolutely meticulous in your efforts to eliminate that low level distortion, and that is why seemingly only a very, very small number of people reap the benefits ...

Frank
 

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