DCS Rossini

Barry2013 · Sep 20, 2015

DCS have kindly invited me to a dealer demo of the Rossini player and DAC next Friday which I will be going along to.
Their Chief Engineer is attending so happy to ask any questions any fellow members might have.
Its lack of SACD capability is something of a turn off for me but will be very interested to hear it with Red Book and downloads.
Will let you know how it goes.

jfrech · Sep 20, 2015

Barry2013 said:
DCS have kindly invited me to a dealer demo of the Rossini player and DAC next Friday which I will be going along to.
Their Chief Engineer is attending so happy to ask any questions any fellow members might have.
Its lack of SACD capability is something of a turn off for me but will be very interested to hear it with Red Book and downloads.
Will let you know how it goes.

I've heard the with the Gibson buyout of TEAC Esoteric, that Esoteric will no longer resell their transports. And this is the root issue for a the Rossini and a integrated SACD player. You can buy a Paganini, Scarlatti or Vivaldi Transport and play SACD's via dual AES.

I bet the Rossini is a fantastic offering...if you can somehow find a different way for SACD if you have a large collection. If you don't have a large SACD collection, DSD downloads are increasing seemingly everyday and this may end up being a better option...or at least equivalent.

Let us know what you find out next Friday...

Barry2013 · Sep 20, 2015

Thanks JF.
Yes if I was to buy a Rossini it would be on the pairings you identify as I do enjoy the SACD format and have quite a number of such discs.
I am not sure if those options will be available at the demo but I'll ask and see what they say.
Will let you know how it goes.

JimmyS · Sep 21, 2015

Looking forward to your comments. Would be curious on how it compares to the Debussy, as I'd be tempted to upgrade

.

Sencha · Sep 22, 2015

Heard it the other day at a show in England through D'Agastino monos and Wilson Alexias' plumbed together with Nordost Odin cable. I thought it sounded great! Would like one myself if funds ever allow.

Barry2013 · Sep 22, 2015

Thanks Sencha.
I don't know what they will be partnered with on Friday but I am pretty sure it won't be the same as at yours because the dealer concerned doesn't do those amps and speakers. It will be interesting to see if they perform as well with different kit.

Sencha · Sep 23, 2015

I was treated to that then a full Vivaldi fronted system later that evening.........the best digital front ends I have heard by a long way. Unfortunately the maths don't add up for me at the moment I'm afraid. Ho-hum.

Barry2013 · Sep 23, 2015

Obviously a wonderful evening Sencha.
I have only heard the Vivaldis in less than ideal show settings so have not heard them at their best but everything I have read indicates that they are the best in the world, but like you beyond my resources.

Sencha · Sep 24, 2015

Barry, I heard the Vivaldi at a friends who ran it through a Dartzeel 18/108 and a pair of Wilson Alexias. I had heard Dcs in the past and was unimpressed to say the least, all detailed and clinical so hadn't worked up much of an appetite for either player. However, upon hearing that impression was soon changed, sounded absolutely sublime and I was unable to fault it in any way. Have since read the reviews of the Vivaldi and many say the same thing (Fremer & Dougry at least). I may not be able to afford it either but a Rossini player or a 2nd hand Vivaldi DAC I'm sure will some day be within reach. Until then I'm quite a dreamer!!

Will look forward to reading your thoughts about it when it comes your way and I hope you hear it in a semi optimal set up.

CKKeung · Sep 24, 2015

jfrech said:
I've heard the with the Gibson buyout of TEAC Esoteric, that Esoteric will no longer resell their transports. And this is the root issue for a the Rossini and a integrated SACD player. You can buy a Paganini, Scarlatti or Vivaldi Transport and play SACD's via dual AES.
I bet the Rossini is a fantastic offering...if you can somehow find a different way for SACD if you have a large collection. If you don't have a large SACD collection, DSD downloads are increasing seemingly everyday and this may end up being a better option...or at least equivalent.
...

Yes, I also hear that Esoteric is now no longer selling Esoteric sacd transport mechanism to other brands.

This is one of the reasons why Paganini and Scarletti transports have to retire and that the Rossini player has a cd transport mechanism only.

dCS is still selling Vivaldi sacd transport because the sale volume is not large and dCS has a small quantity of Eso sacd transport mechanisms bought previously.

LL21 · Sep 24, 2015

Barry2013 said:
DCS have kindly invited me to a dealer demo of the Rossini player and DAC next Friday which I will be going along to.
Their Chief Engineer is attending so happy to ask any questions any fellow members might have.
Its lack of SACD capability is something of a turn off for me but will be very interested to hear it with Red Book and downloads.
Will let you know how it goes.

Let us know how it goes tomorrow!

LL21 · Sep 24, 2015

Sencha said:
Barry, I heard the Vivaldi at a friends who ran it through a Dartzeel 18/108 and a pair of Wilson Alexias. I had heard Dcs in the past and was unimpressed to say the least, all detailed and clinical so hadn't worked up much of an appetite for either player. However, upon hearing that impression was soon changed, sounded absolutely sublime and I was unable to fault it in any way. Have since read the reviews of the Vivaldi and many say the same thing (Fremer & Dougry at least). I may not be able to afford it either but a Rossini player or a 2nd hand Vivaldi DAC I'm sure will some day be within reach. Until then I'm quite a dreamer!!

Will look forward to reading your thoughts about it when it comes your way and I hope you hear it in a semi optimal set up.

I too have heard the Scarlatti and Vivaldi, as well as the even earlier DCS equipment. I struggled 3 times to buy the older DCS equipment at a steep discount 2nd hand...and could never get myself to do it no matter how good it sounded. Not sure why exactly. Along came Zanden and it took me 20 minutes to spend 2x what i had budgeted for the DCS as my 'absolute limit' for digital.

I then had an option to trade for the Scarlatti setup...and thought about it but did not fall in love with the Scarlatti enough to do it, though i certainly recognized its performance and tremendous detail. I have since heard someone's system (someone who also owns Zanden) and the Scarlatti was incredibly better than i thought possible. But the Scarlatti has since gone, but his Zanden stays...perhaps a statement?

But Vivaldi is another matter, as you say, where i found it in multiple systems to be part of a sound i found incredibly effortless, relaxed and yet absolutely detailed in a way that DCS has long mastered. It certainly intrigued me as a digital front end in a way earlier generations had not.

I am perfectly happy with Zanden and no desire to spend the money even 2nd hand that would be required to go for Vivaldi...but like the mighty Metronome Kalista and its descendants, i totally 'get it' and can see why some consider it the end of the digital line for today or certainly among that very top echelon of today's digital.

Barry2013 · Sep 25, 2015

Not long home from the Rossini demo so herewith my impressions while the sound is still fresh in my head.
The demo was only of the Rossini player. No Dac or clock the latter of which is not yet readily available even for demos.
Some context first. 15 foot square room but well set up. Stillpoints ESS stand, Ultra 5s and SSs, Silver Tellus, Powerus and 2 Silver Minimus, Entreq Challenger and Konstantin cabling,new Vitus Reference integrated amp, Melco streamer (which I didn't hear because of time constraints), and very new Bowers and Wilkins 800 D3s not yet released generally and only about 100 hours play time, So in many ways very similar to my own set up (details in profile).
Played Abcko Let it Bleed CD and Emanuelle Haim Le Concerte D'Astree version of Handel's Messiah which is a top class recording and obviously much newer than the Stones CD.
First impressions were a lovely open and musical sound. Voices very clear and intelligible with great timing and dynamics. Overall not up to my own system but almost certainly down to the speakers and amp. My Kipod Signature passives and Vitus SIA 025 are clearly superior and the Rossini could not be expected to overcome the limitations of the demo amp and speakers. Bass in particular was not as full and rich as through my nine inch woofers. Having said that the Rossini was impressive and would I am sure sound much better in mine or another higher end system.
Looks very elegant and the build quality stood out, The DAC in the Rossini player has the Vivaldi technology and I am sure would be great with other digital kit and I would judge beat the Debussy as would even more so the dedicated Rossini DAC whih I am sure is going to be a tremendous performer, but not needed for the Rossini player.
I am a fan of SACD so the Rossini for me would need a Paganini or Scarlatti transport to play SACD by AES which is another option for me as I had been thinking of adding a Scarlatti DAC to my Puccini/Scarlatti word clock.
So yes a great addition to the DCS line up but I am sure I did not get to hear its full potential for the reasons set out above. Should you audition the Rossini player or DAC? Unquestionably yes.
Hope that is helpful.

LL21 · Sep 25, 2015

Barry 2013,

Thanks for that.

BTW, did you see the Metronome Kalista Ultimate...the 1 of 25 ever made...when you were there? Microstrip will know it for sure...it is the Metronome Kalista that is on a custom pedestal of the same acrylic and aluminum legs. Absolutely beautiful.

Would i trade my beloved Zanden digital 4-box for the Metronome Ultimate? hmmmmm...

Barry2013 · Sep 25, 2015

No it was at the Martins Hifi dealers not DCS HQ.
Just to add to my earlier post there are some improvements coming soon to the Vivaldi but don't have any more details. I imagine they will be available to existing Vivaldi owners.

Sencha · Sep 25, 2015

Barry/Lloyd, when I spoke to Liam from DCS he said that the Rossini sound reproduction surpasses the Scarlatti system as it uses the Vivaldi DAC. Not being aquainted with the Scarlatti I cannot verify that statement but I can only agree with your write up Barry of the Rossini sound which to my ears is about as good a digital sound as you would ever need. You would certainly not want for anything unless you heard something significantly higher up the food chain (read expensive) and at £18k for the player, though not cheap is within reach of many a HiFi buyer.

Barry, I'm sure DCS would be happy for you to try one in your home if you were seriously interested in buying. My friend had the Vivaldi for several weeks before deciding to purchase.

Barry2013 · Sep 25, 2015

Thanks Sencha.
Liam was there at my demo and was very helpful and knowledgeable. I don't remember him saying exactly to me what he said to you. He certainly spoke very highly of the Rossini and I have no reason to doubt what he said to you.
Yes I am sure that I could easily arrange an extended home demo of the Rossini player but it would be a double upgrade to retain SACD capability and I would prefer to spread the cost and do that in two separate stages,
The partnering equipment at your demo was superior to mine so you would have heard a better sound from the Rossini than I did but it was still impressive at mine.

jfrech · Sep 25, 2015

Barry, nice reply and I bet a great demo. Hopefully you'll get to demo the Rossini at home soon. I suspect the Scarlatti clock stays. Then a Rossini DAC may make it's way to your room soon

. When I had my Puccini, I always wish it had firewire or dual aes output...but a few used Scarlatti (and Paganini) transports are out there used, my dealer has a Scarlatti in Austin Tx if that was ever a path you were curious to take. He's also getting a Rossini soon, so I'll get to hear it next to his Scarlatti stack.

Mostly I am glad you got to hear it and post your impressions for the rest of us ! Thanks !

LL21 · Sep 25, 2015

Thanks, gents. I thought this was at KJ West One in Central London...they have the Metronome Ultimate SE there...whew...a thing of beauty. Metronome black and silver vs the Zanden gold...

Barry2013 · Sep 25, 2015

Thanks Jf.
Yes the Scarlatti clock is impressive. My first priority is to upgrade the existing Entreq Konstantin clock cable. It will probably be best to go to an Entreq Apollo to match the rest of the cable loom and Per Oloff developed them all using DCS kit and now has two Vivaldi stacks so should be a good choice. I do have an opportunity to buy a good used MIT Oracle which DCS rate very highly but then mixing cables which is not usually recommended. What is very clear, however, now, and courtesy of both this forum and DCS's chief engineer, is what a big improvement such an upgrade brings. Much more than I had previously appreciated and not too costly.
Yes the options you set out look the most likely and a used Scarlatti transport could well be the option I go for initially.
I will be very interested to read your impressions of the Rossini compared with the Scarlatti stack. DCS obviously believe the Rossini to be a worthy successor having discontinued the Scarlatti and the Paganini lines.
It may be related to the loss of supply of the Esoteric transport and saving their existing stock for service etc.They did approach Oppo about using their transport but the minimum order they would do for DCS was 250,000 units which was not on for DCS and it proved too difficult for DCS to make their own when they explored that option.
Will make a decision in due course but thanks for your very helpful advice and the info on your dealer.

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