Digital active crossover questions

anders · Sep 18, 2015

I'm looking to learn a bit more about digital active crossovers. For instance between direct radiating midbass/mid driver and a wave guide compression driver. What is the advantage to them over for instance a Marchand active solid state crossover?

I can understand how they would be be better with very long wavelengths, such as bass frequencies. But are they superior higher up as well?

Are the best digital active crossovers transparent to the best high resolution DACs (either DSD, PCM or both)?

For the state of the art is it best to have a dedicated DAC for each crossover frequency- TotalDAC can offer something like this.

Any recommended reading? I'd really like to dive in and learn as much as possible in this area. So any links, books, articles are welcome. Thanks... that should get it rolling

sly30 · Sep 19, 2015

look for Trinnov Audio. They have few models.

JackD201 · Sep 19, 2015

The advantage of a digital crossover in this specific instance is that you can choose the crossover slopes. More importantly in the case of mating a compression driver to a direct radiating driver it allows you to select and use asymmetrical slope settings. The horn can drop of steeply but you can bring the bass driver in more gently effectively getting a smoother transition. With a unit like the Marchand Xs you get 24 or 48dB slopes and pretty much have to live with that. Asymmetry can be advantageous in cases of particular driver physical arrangements on the baffle as well as some other factors.

BTW I've actually done this.

dallasjustice · Sep 19, 2015

I would start with Acourate or Audiolense offer the most flexibility. The totaldac crossover/delay functionality is very limited. I don't recommended it.

Passive crossovers can also be asymmetric. There are many other advantages with digital crossovers. Of course, there are some downsides too when it's done wrong.

anders · Sep 19, 2015

dallasjustice said:
I would start with Acourate or Audiolense offer the most flexibility. The totaldac crossover/delay functionality is very limited. I don't recommended it.

Passive crossovers can also be asymmetric. There are many other advantages with digital crossovers. Of course, there are some downsides too when it's done wrong.

I may be wrong, but to me it looks like these are both digital signal processing that is done server/computer side?

While I do intend to try those out to correct some room response, I was mainly asking about at the crossover use. IE miniDSP

Where there are individual crossover slopes, time and phase alignment at each crossover point instead of an overall 20-20k EQ.

My mistake using the Marchand as an example, I thought it offered far more options with xover slopes.

Still looking for any reading material that you guys have found helpful. I imagine we all collected our knowledge from somewhere, it's those basics and fundamentals that I'm looking to learn

dallasjustice · Sep 19, 2015

The software I mentioned can do all of the things needed. You only need to pick out seperate hardware. If you want a budget all-in-one box, minidsp is fine.

anders said:
I may be wrong, but to me it looks like these are both digital signal processing that is done server/computer side?

While I do intend to try those out to correct some room response, I was mainly asking about at the crossover use. IE miniDSP

View attachment 22314

Where there are individual crossover slopes, time and phase alignment at each crossover point instead of an overall 20-20k EQ.

My mistake using the Marchand as an example, I thought it offered far more options with xover slopes.

Still looking for any reading material that you guys have found helpful. I imagine we all collected our knowledge from somewhere, it's those basics and fundamentals that I'm looking to learn

microstrip · Sep 19, 2015

Some years ago the Behringer ULTRADRIVE PRO DCX2496 was the king - I have even bough one and played with it. Why are active fans not recommending it anymore? It could even be controlled by a PC allowing immediate comparison of crossovers.

Anyone can easily implement an active speaker using daisy chained Devialet's - it includes level , delay and up to 4th order variable frequency low and high filters .

anders · Sep 19, 2015

dallasjustice said:
The software I mentioned can do all of the things needed. You only need to pick out seperate hardware. If you want a budget all-in-one box, minidsp is fine.

I've gone through both sites again. I can't figure out how they would be used, the software runs server side and has multiple analog outputs through some third party hardware controller?

IMHO the documentation is pretty lacking for both of them, unless they are designed for professional use and not for end users.

I intend to give miniDSP a try first; the hardware is dirt cheap and the website is incredibly well laid out and explained. But ultimately am after the best possible sound quality.

The multiple analog outputs is because the system will be multi amped

anders · Sep 22, 2015

Updates to the project, ordered Supravox 215 "Excitation" (field coil) drivers with custom built fully regulated DC power supplies. One of my friends in Nice uses them and the sound is like my Sony R10 in the mids. Debating trying either compression driver plus waveguide ala Geddes for treble or RAAL tweeter. Also looking into midbass options. This will all be open baffle and should keep me occupied in my down time! Individual amps per driver, and I think I will go with FirstWatt SIT amps for the all important midrange.

I am looking more into Acourate and sent them an email inquiring about how it would be applicable in my case.

Right now it is computer (JRMC19), Berkeley Alpha USB -> AN DAC4.1 -> Pass Labs INT150 -> KEF LS50

So I need either a multi-channel preamp or some other way to split the signal.

Nyal Mellor · Sep 22, 2015

anders said:
Updates to the project, ordered Supravox 215 "Excitation" (field coil) drivers with custom built fully regulated DC power supplies. One of my friends in Nice uses them and the sound is like my Sony R10 in the mids. Debating trying either compression driver plus waveguide ala Geddes for treble or RAAL tweeter. Also looking into midbass options. This will all be open baffle and should keep me occupied in my down time! Individual amps per driver, and I think I will go with FirstWatt SIT amps for the all important midrange.

I am looking more into Acourate and sent them an email inquiring about how it would be applicable in my case.

Right now it is computer (JRMC19), Berkeley Alpha USB -> AN DAC4.1 -> Pass Labs INT150 -> KEF LS50

So I need either a multi-channel preamp or some other way to split the signal.

I have a demo ExaSound E28 MkI I am trying to find a new home for. It is an 8 channel USB DAC with built in volume control. Sounds very good. Would be perfect for a computer based crossover using JRiver. I could even throw in an hour of consulting time to get you started

To keep things simple you might try starting with a simple crossover, and move up to Acourate or Audiolens later. You can make a simple crossover in JRiver very easily using the Parametric EQ functions http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Parametric_Equalizer. You already have them in JRMC19, they are found in DSP studio.

anders · Sep 23, 2015

Nyal Mellor said:
I have a demo ExaSound E28 MkI I am trying to find a new home for. It is an 8 channel USB DAC with built in volume control. Sounds very good. Would be perfect for a computer based crossover using JRiver. I could even throw in an hour of consulting time to get you started

To keep things simple you might try starting with a simple crossover, and move up to Acourate or Audiolens later. You can make a simple crossover in JRiver very easily using the Parametric EQ functions http://wiki.jriver.com/index.php/Parametric_Equalizer. You already have them in JRMC19, they are found in DSP studio.

Nyal, I might take you up on that if it is still available early next year. For now I plan to try out miniDSP 2x8 just to get my head around this, since it's cheap and they have an active forum.

Further down the road I do not want to do D to A (AN 4.1) -> Minidsp performing A to D -> {DSP processing for xover} -> D to A -> amplifier. I've discussed my setup with Uli at Acourate about using a pro multiple digital output soundcard to a multichannel DAC (or four individual stereo DACs) that way I only have a single D to A conversion occurring.

pjwd · Sep 24, 2015

Anders - I have the mini dsp balanced running my OB woofers - I originally was thinking like you that it would be a temporary set up to get it right and then I would build an analogue electronic crossover - the results have been so good and the flexibility of biquad filters so excellent to use that I am sticking with the mini dsp - seems crazy to be running all this fancy gear through a $125 a/d - d/a processor but it works so well. I will be interested in how you go.

Cheers,

Phil

anders · Sep 25, 2015

Thanks Phil, nice to see you are using it in OB as well. Pretty excited to dive in when time permits. In my own experience with my tube amplifier eliminating caps in the signal path has always resulted in significant improvements.

Nyal Mellor · Sep 25, 2015

anders said:
Nyal, I might take you up on that if it is still available early next year. For now I plan to try out miniDSP 2x8 just to get my head around this, since it's cheap and they have an active forum.

I've discussed my setup with Uli at Acourate about using a pro multiple digital output soundcard to a multichannel DAC (or four individual stereo DACs) that way I only have a single D to A conversion occurring.

That's one way to do it, but better and cheaper just to use an Exasound (which is a multi-channel USB DAC) unless you can throw a lot of money at it.

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