Modded Lenco TTs like PTP
- Thread starter bonzo75
- Start date
I've demoed the Sme 20/V, TW Acustic AC3, Brinkman Bardo and La Grange at home, and depite them having certain attrributes better, the modded Garrard 301s, and my Garrard/Lenco-inspired Trand Fi Salvation betters them in the areas of drive, rhythmic energy, and tonal depth.
Don't know about PTP products in particular but some Lenco & Garrard tables, in the right plinth can easily outperform the above mentioned tables.
david
In Europe PTP rules at 2500 EUR. Lenco heaven forum is full of them, western electric lovers, and Schick. The PTP comes with Schick tone arm
Not my kind of turntable but I do admire from afar. I would like the Artisan Fidelity 301 reference though.
Don't look at them as inexpensive beginner tt these idlers are way beyond entry level, with the right setup they can be full blown high end front ends.
david
Can,t beat a good Idler
Garrard 501 Transciption Turntable are about $25k & the Artisan Fidelity version about $50k
Can,t beat a good Idler
Garrard 501 Transciption Turntable are about $25k & the Artisan Fidelity version about $50k
IMO you should draw the line at $10k max for these tables, there are far better alternatives above that. I like the 501 too.
david
(Edit) By these tables, I mean vintage idlers in plinths, tweaked, modified or otherwise.
Last edited:
I don't know offhand how a tweaked Lenco compares, but one customer with a Jean Nantais L75 purchased a Kuzma 4Point, and I set it up with his Koetsu Coralstone, and he has been very happy and is becoming a repeat customer. Some photos of the installation, among others, are on my new website under About / Portfolio.
I agree, but to separate the vintage idlers, I would draw the line at 4K, or less, for a Lenco based one. (less tonearm and cartridge)
If looks really matter to you...
Chris Thornton's offerings might be exceptions. His craftsmanship is impeccable. You are buying a turntable with his, but you are also buying art to a degree. Art always costs more, but down the road the value holds.
If what is does is the primary guide...
If someone builds one that is worth more than 4K, it should have an extremely elaborate speed control, or be modified to a point where it is no longer a Lenco. I haven't seen one of those, yet.
You can make your own, time permitting...
A person who has only basic, rudimentary skills and virtually no tools can build a maxxed-out slate one for maybe $2,500. This would include a new bearing, idler wheel, slate, various tweaks, waterjet time, and any other extraneous tool/labor/freight costs. Best of all, you wouldn't even need a saw. In fact, hardly more than a screwdriver would be needed. Lenco Heaven forum is filled with guys who have done it, and some are absolutely stellar.
I have built a highly modified Lenco in the past, so I am quite sure of that assessment. The Lenco can sound very nice, and it is definitely the most cost effective point of departure in a vintage turntable.
Garrards, Commonwealths, and a scant few others can soak up much more money during a good restoration or redesign.
Last edited:
$10k max was for a complete table including arm, cartridge and cable at the higher end which includes an involved high end base. Agree with Chris's plinths aesthetically, they're beautiful just don't know how they sound. My reservation are his mods, you lose the balance and essence of the original's sound with such intrusive tweaking.
I never owned a Lenco so I'm unfamiliar with the sound of their various models but I know Garrards well and what can be done with them without any modification.
david
David,
It seems we agree. My Lenco is also modified almost beyond recognition, so I cannot say that it sounds like a Lenco. It is warm and musical, but smeared and lacking detail when compared with really good top-tier turntables. This is for a variety of reasons, some of those being the artifacts of the remaining Lenco parts. The motor and platter are definitely limiting factors. If you change those, is it a Lenco? The Thornton turntable, although more extensively modified may be similar sounding in ways. Having never heard one I have no way of knowing for certain, but the platter change was probably a very good idea that took it a step beyond mine.
My take on a standard Lenco is that it is a musical turntable with a somewhat forward sound. The plinth tends to change its character more than it does on most vintage brands. Wood can make it very warm sounding, and slate can make it noticeably colder, but more detailed. I believe this is due to the Lenco top plate, or lack thereof. Regardless of the user's preference, it is a very good bang for the buck by most standards.
It seems we agree. My Lenco is also modified almost beyond recognition, so I cannot say that it sounds like a Lenco. It is warm and musical, but smeared and lacking detail when compared with really good top-tier turntables. This is for a variety of reasons, some of those being the artifacts of the remaining Lenco parts. The motor and platter are definitely limiting factors. If you change those, is it a Lenco? The Thornton turntable, although more extensively modified may be similar sounding in ways. Having never heard one I have no way of knowing for certain, but the platter change was probably a very good idea that took it a step beyond mine.
My take on a standard Lenco is that it is a musical turntable with a somewhat forward sound. The plinth tends to change its character more than it does on most vintage brands. Wood can make it very warm sounding, and slate can make it noticeably colder, but more detailed. I believe this is due to the Lenco top plate, or lack thereof. Regardless of the user's preference, it is a very good bang for the buck by most standards.
Last edited:
I haven't had them side by side and only heard Lenco tables in other people's systems but I find the Garrards more detailed and musical with no smearing. I found the same thing with the plinths, they have a direct effect on the tonality and overall balance, do you have any experience with a 301 or 401? My plinths are very industrial and they sound pretty good. I found a lead/hardwood sandwich as the best combination. I couldn't tame stone, corian, or aluminum resonance effectively and wood, even layered with various metals was colored.
david
I have heard quite a few of them in a variety of ways, including Panzerholtz, and my favorite was in a hardwood plinth...maple, I think. The Panzerholtz one was particularly disappointing.
Recently, I heard one without a plinth that sounded surprisingly good. It had been extensively modified, however. Only the motor and linkage remained. The new 35 lb. platter and even the top plate were brass. It was mounted on four heavy brass posts with external brass arm pods. It also had a radical bearing assembly that was actually freestanding. Oh, well. It looked like a Garrard 301.
Last edited:
Hi David,
I've been a fan of vintage idlers for quite some time and have two in my stable, a TD-124 and 301, both fully restored in nice plinths(both cost me around $7000 all in). That said I'm still always admiring new tables, such as the Kuzma M and Spiral Groove. I'm just curious to know what you feel is a better alternative at $10,000 over a Garrard or Thorens? If the 301 can outperform a $20,000 TW Acustic, SME, or Brinkmann, wouldn't that mean they are a good value even over $10,000?
Similar threads
 | Steve Williams Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator |  | Ron Resnick Site Co-Owner | Administrator |  | Julian (The Fixer) Website Build | Marketing Managersing |