Apogee Acoustics via Graz

Zero000 · Dec 16, 2015

bonzo75 said:
Fixt

Hello? Ego central calling?

Some Interstella pics, mainly in prototype form.

https://plus.google.com/photos/110178171641889521518/albums/6039756658812220609/6039756693762245906?pid=6039756693762245906&oid=110178171641889521518

The real ego is Graz. Understated. Quietly working away without showing off and blagging like us.

Respect to that.

christoph · Dec 16, 2015

Hi Justin

User211 said:
Good to see you posting the Apogee forum is largely dead and has been for a while. I think people are afraid to post on it!

I'm pretty sure the way my speakers are braced is fairly unique, and keeps the mass down to reasonable proportions whilst achieving very high rigidity. All out mass doesn't necessarily help. I didn't ever claim frame bracing was original, and I am sure it was done by others before you.

The one thing I haven't done is raise the panels. I want something that works at normal ear height in a normal chair in an 18 ft long room, and your raise idea I think wouldn't work in smaller rooms. And I love the aesthetics of the original Duetta. The front covers have been improved aesthetically by the Interstella spec, but this was largely due to seeing a recent Graz front Duetta panel.

In fact, virtually everything is due to Graz, and no one should forget that. All refurbishers have been trained by him and he supplies the ribbons. He has also built the most interesting variants.

Graz posted a list of the top 10 things you could do to improve the sound above and beyond the standard Apogee spec. I merely did as many as possible within the budget I allocated to Interstella. Which is a damn site less than I allocated to my Porsche, LOL.

No need to get all defensive, I just wanted to tease you a little

We're absolutely on the same page here

christoph · Dec 16, 2015

Hi Justin

User211 said:
Some Interstella pics, mainly in prototype form.

https://plus.google.com/photos/110178171641889521518/albums/6039756658812220609/6039756693762245906?pid=6039756693762245906&oid=110178171641889521518

Absolutely wonderful pieces of art

Did you have your speakers in a different room for some time? Which one is the latest?
Which Lampi DAC do you have now?
Did you sell your lovely AA211 amps and exclusively use the Accu?

Zero000 · Dec 16, 2015

christoph said:
Hi Justin

No need to get all defensive, I just wanted to tease you a little
We're absolutely on the same page here

I wasn't being. I was just trying to direct the credit to where it is due - Graz

Hope you're keeping well and Kedar was good to you, LOL.

Zero000 · Dec 16, 2015

christoph said:
Hi Justin

Absolutely wonderful pieces of art
Did you have your speakers in a different room for some time? Which one is the latest?
Which Lampi DAC do you have now?
Did you sell your lovely AA211 amps and exclusively use the Accu?

The last shot with the blue lights is the room you heard my original restorations in and the final resting place. They sound better balanced and quite a lot better - you'd approve.

Still got the AAs - thinking about selling, but if I plug them in again I know I am going to find that VERY HARD to do

Big 7 DAC. Had a Golden Gate demo in my room but IMHO not worth the extra money. Really not that much better in my opinion but I am sure many will disagree.

spiritofmusic · Dec 16, 2015

Kedar has a big say in my even being interested in Apogees. Justin in keeping my interest going re liason w/Jon Oakey, and possibility of that all-important demo, and now Christolph and Lissnr are chiming in as users and highly enthusiastic owners to keep my curiosity up.
It looks like I may have to settle on an 18x12x9 room, and it's good to hear this is a nice fit for Graz Duetta.
I would like to go for Advance 7 Duettas, but at 2.5x the price of Justin's spec Interstella, and the fact I need to find £10k for Nat Transmitter S.E.Tetrodes 120W/ch monos, the A7s are going to be out of reach.
From what I can glean from Justin, his Interstellas will potentially have a lot of the A7 Duettas goodness, just maybe not that last 5%. That's a compromise I can live with.

So, if I "go" for Justin's sound, I really will have a decision to make. Trust a superficially non-SET friendly spkr, esp when I've turned down similarly non-SET friendly options (Giya G1, JBL Everest, Rockport), take it instead of a direct competitor, AA Omega, undertake a tearful, messy divorce from my Zus, ditching the sound that has always melted me in the past, deciding not to go for the most logical radical alternative AG Duo Mezzos XD, and reconciling me to non woofer bass. All the while, taking a calculated gamble that a potentially dynamics-constricting mismatch doesn't appear l/t in mating 87dB/1W planars w/SETs, and discovering that the spkrs don't sing at lower levels, but have to be pushed hard at highish volumes exclusively.

bonzo75 · Dec 16, 2015

Justin's sound is different from Christoph's and from the Full Range. And from the AA

Zero000 · Dec 16, 2015

spiritofmusic said:
Kedar has a big say in my even being interested in Apogees. Justin in keeping my interest going re liason w/Jon Oakey, and possibility of that all-important demo, and now Christolph and Lissnr are chiming in as users and highly enthusiastic owners to keep my curiosity up.
It looks like I may have to settle on an 18x12x9 room, and it's good to hear this is a nice fit for Graz Duetta.
I would like to go for Advance 7 Duettas, but at 2.5x the price of Justin's spec Interstella, and the fact I need to find £10k for Nat Transmitter S.E.Tetrodes 120W/ch monos, the A7s are going to be out of reach.
From what I can glean from Justin, his Interstellas will potentially have a lot of the A7 Duettas goodness, just maybe not that last 5%. That's a compromise I can live with.

So, if I "go" for Justin's sound, I really will have a decision to make. Trust a superficially non-SET friendly spkr, esp when I've turned down similarly non-SET friendly options (Giya G1, JBL Everest, Rockport), take it instead of a direct competitor, AA Omega, undertake a tearful, messy divorce from my Zus, ditching the sound that has always melted me in the past, deciding not to go for the most logical radical alternative AG Duo Mezzos XD, and reconciling me to non woofer bass. All the while, taking a calculated gamble that a potentially dynamics-constricting mismatch doesn't appear l/t in mating 87dB/1W planars w/SETs, and discovering that the spkrs don't sing at lower levels, but have to be pushed hard at highish volumes exclusively.

Marc - buy the friggin' NATs and bring them round here. If it doesn't work, go elsewhere. I suspect they will work well though.

Face it - you MUST have the NATs. End of

Right or wrong as Kedar says.

spiritofmusic · Dec 16, 2015

Bonzo, the Interstella spec is likely to be my choice if I go down this route. The best balance of size for my room, moderate SET-friendliness, cost/performance ratio, and the fact this is the one I'll have most likelihood of hearing easily prior to any purchase.

Zero000 · Dec 16, 2015

The Transmitters are also Peter's best Omega option. So just get them regardless?

Zero000 · Dec 16, 2015

spiritofmusic said:
From what I can glean from Justin, his Interstellas will potentially have a lot of the A7 Duettas goodness, just maybe not that last 5%. That's a compromise I can live with.

I just said there is a limit to how much difference structural rigidity can make. I have no idea what the actual performance of the speaker will be. They could deliver quite a bit more than 5% but diminishing returns has to set in at that price.

Don't quote me on what I didn't say, Marc. And especially when what I did say was between you and me.

bonzo75 · Dec 16, 2015

And especially when that quote was probably a conjecture. It is quite obvious it is impossible to say how much goodness of A7 Interstellas have. My Big 7 probably has most of the goodness of the Diamond Gate

bonzo75 · Dec 16, 2015

spiritofmusic said:
Bonzo, the Interstella spec is likely to be my choice if I go down this route. The best balance of size for my room, moderate SET-friendliness, cost/performance ratio, and the fact this is the one I'll have most likelihood of hearing easily prior to any purchase.

Why? Same size as A7 and Omega. All 3 will have differences enough to make you like one if you don't like the other. So listen to all 3. A7 costlier, sure.

bonzo75 · Dec 16, 2015

User211 said:
Marc - buy the friggin' NATs and bring them round here. If it doesn't work, go elsewhere. I suspect they will work well though.

Face it - you MUST have the NATs. End of Right or wrong as Kedar says.

Mods, can we rename thread to Kedar says...

spiritofmusic · Dec 16, 2015

User211 said:
I just said there is a limit to how much difference structural rigidity can make. I have no idea what the actual performance of the speaker will be. They could deliver quite a bit more than 5% but diminishing returns has to set in at that price.

Don't quote me on what I didn't say, Marc. And especially when what I did say was between you and me.

Many apologies Justin, point taken. I guess I'll try to hear both, and make a more considered verdict.

christoph · Dec 16, 2015

Hi Justin

User211 said:
Still got the AAs - thinking about selling, but if I plug them in again I know I am going to find that VERY HARD to do

Have you ever tried biamping your Stellas with the Accu in the bass and the AA on the mr-tw-ribbon?
I did exactly that yesterday and was pretty much floored

bonzo75 · Dec 16, 2015

What Christoph says is another choice, Marc - KR audio 30w on ribbon and SS/hybrid on the bass (he has the Lamm M1.1)

Argonaut · Dec 16, 2015

bonzo75 said:
What Christoph says is another choice, Marc - KR audio 30w on ribbon and SS/hybrid on the bass (he has the Lamm M1.1)

Errr, why not keep his incumbent NAT's and look for a reasonably priced Base panel option! Lamm M1.2 Ref, Pass Labs, etc.etc.

bonzo75 · Dec 16, 2015

Harlequin said:
Errr, why not keep his incumbent NAT's and look for a reasonably priced Base panel option! Lamm M1.2 Ref, Pass Labs, etc.etc.

Yes I was spelling out Christoph's config - KR and Lamm. Not asking Marc to subStitute KR for NAT

ddk · Dec 16, 2015

bonzo75 said:
Yes I was spelling out Christoph's config - KR and Lamm. Not asking Marc to subStitute KR for NAT

What does he use for an external crossover?

david

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