Hello from Scottsdale, AZ

ekovalsky

New Member
Aug 19, 2015
8
0
0
Scottsdale, AZ
Hi all, I was referred by an acquaintance on Audiogon. I stopped by and looks there is a wealth of great info here, so I registered and look forward to learning and participating. A little about me and my audiophilia...

I've been an audiophile since college. My first system in the college dorm room was a M&K satellite/sub system with SAE electronics. Over the years I continually upgraded and enjoyed time with some very fine speakers including Infinity IRS Betas, Sonus Faber Extremas, poor man's Apogee Grand (e.g. Divas with Muse 18 subs), and VMPS RM/X. Of those I only had serious seller's remorse for the Divas/Muse - they were phenomenal! My wife twisted my arm to sell them otherwise I'd likely still own them today.

I finally settled with Alón/Nola speakers, which I am pretty much married to now. They are amazing loudspeakers, which not all expensive ones are - being very well designed and gorgeous too. The line array of Raven R-1 true ribbon tweeters and Vifa M13Mi-08 alnico midranges operating as dipoles, Seas magnesium cone woofers in sealed boxes, and stacked ported subwoofers pretty much do everything very well. There are no inherent weaknesses. The biggest challenge of course is integrating all those drivers coherently... with the supplied crossovers I felt the system was leaving a lot of performance untapped, so I went full active/DSP route on them with TacT electronics, to great effect.

If anyone is interested I posted some details of my current system here:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...r-Nola-Speakers&p=334762&viewfull=1#post33476

There are a few other loudspeaker systems that I have always been interested in, and would potentially 'cheat' on the Alón/Nola for - Martin Logan Statement E2, MBL 101 X-treme, and Genesis 1.2; obviously I am partial to two piece per side systems. And given my regret of selling the Apogees, I'd always be tempted by fully restored Divas, Full Range, or Grands, or the 'Definitive' from Australia.
 

treitz3

Super Moderator
Staff member
Dec 25, 2011
5,459
961
1,290
The tube lair in beautiful Rock Hill, SC
Welcome to the What's Best Forum! I took a peek at your system and I'm still picking pieces of my jaw up off of the ground. Well done sir, well done! ;)

Tom
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
37
0
Seattle, WA
Welcome aboard. I still have my M&K subs powering my old home theater which I bought back in 1997 or so.

The Nola indeed is magnificent looking. Perhaps the best industrial design of any loudspeaker out there (although Gary's carbon fiber Genesis ranks way up there too).
 

marty

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
3,025
4,173
2,520
United States
The biggest challenge of course is integrating all those drivers coherently... with the supplied crossovers I felt the system was leaving a lot of performance untapped, so I went full active/DSP route on them with TacT electronics, to great effect.

Welcome to WBF. Its great to see another TacT/DSP user here although I have to warn you, most of the members here do not view DSP kindly. Those of us that do understand and know that DSP affords some solutions that are unobtainable any other way and the trick to to try to take advantage of that while minimizing any liabilities. Beautiful system. Enjoy and again, welcome.
Marty
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
37
0
Seattle, WA
Beautiful system & home! I recently learned about DSP via Dirac and don't need any convincing personally.

Lee
The Dirac implementation in the Krell that I heard at CES was 100% convincing even in a hotel room!
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,411
2,509
1,448
Stunning setup, room and system! Enjoy.

Have you spent any time at Esoteric Audio in AZ? I have spoken with Andrew there a number of times...great professional.

As for Divas...i am MOST curious about that. Any thoughts on the old legendary Apogee Full Range (the one with 0.14ohm load) plus a pair of SOTA subs? Was always a big fan of the Stages, but sadly was out of my range just getting out of school even second hand. Had i bought them, i probably would have kept them all the way thru my current speakers (and not even stopped by the world of SF...Guarneri and Strad).
 

ekovalsky

New Member
Aug 19, 2015
8
0
0
Scottsdale, AZ
Thanks all.

Steve nice to see you here! Oneobgyn, yes ? Please say hello to Mike for me, tell him his old speakers are being well cared for :) If I remember correctly, he replaced them with Rockports... What is he using these days ? And you had Wilson X1s ??

Marty I went from a dCs stack front end with Sonic Frontiers' top tube gear to the TacT setup, and have been thrilled with it, although the process of getting a good result took some time and ultimately the key was to use the system 'off-label' with the independent TACS software, which enables DSP in the amplifiers, rather than the bundled TacT software which does DSP in the RCS. Between my corrected home system and custom JHAudio IEMs that I use on the go, I am spoiled for a smooth frequency response... uncorrected 2 channel systems sound weird to me now. The biggest drawback of room correction is the tradeoff between size of the sweet spot and effectiveness of correction. Listening area can certainly be broadened by averaging measurements, but this comes at the expensive of effectiveness at any particular place in the room.

LL21 - I actually have not been to Esoteric Audio, I believe they recently moved from Scottsdale to Phoenix. They do carry some fine lines, and I have been curious about the Devialet which is now among their offerings, so I will have to visit. As far as Apogees go, I was never so fond of the Stages. The 'magic' I found in Apogees was limited to the larger 3-way models - Diva, Full Range, Scintilla, Grand - and I believe was from the dedicated midrange ribbons. I only heard the Full Range once and thought it was even better than the Diva... A restored, driveable Full Range would be an incredible loudspeaker. Only drawback on the big Apogees is they are not so efficient and require large solid state or tube amps. The huge dipole bass drivers have their benefits and drawbacks, with the Diva things were definitely improved by offloading the bottom 3 octaves to the (excellent) Muse subs. Same with the Nolas... the bass on the mains is improved by offloading most of the bottom two octaves to the sub towers. In both cases limiting the excursion of the big dipole bass driver in the Apogee and the sealed box mag cone woofers in the Alons helps integration and reduces distortion.
 
Last edited:

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,411
2,509
1,448
...LL21 - ... As far as Apogees go, I was never so fond of the Stages. Their 'magic' I found was limited to the larger 3-way models - Diva, Full Range, Scintilla, Grand - was in the dedicated midrange ribbon ribbons. I only heard the Full Range once and thought it was even better than the Diva... A restored, driveable Full Range would be an incredible loudspeaker. Only drawback on the big Apogees is they are not so efficient and require large solid state or tube amps. The huge dipole bass drivers have their benefits and drawbacks, with the Diva things were definitely improved by offloading the bottom 3 octaves to the (excellent) Muse subs. ... In both cases limiting the excursion of the big dipole bass driver in the Apogee and the sealed box mag cone woofers in the Alons helps integration and reduces distortion.

Intriguing! REgarding the impossible-to-drive Full Ranges, do you know by any chance if one can drive them with a big stereo Krell? In my case, i have a Class A Gryphon which does double its output consistently to 0.5 ohms.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
16,017
13,346
2,665
Beverly Hills, CA
Welcome! You have a beautiful, and I am sure, beautiful sounding, system!

PS: I have always wanted to hear the Statement E2 too.
 

ekovalsky

New Member
Aug 19, 2015
8
0
0
Scottsdale, AZ
Intriguing! REgarding the impossible-to-drive Full Ranges, do you know by any chance if one can drive them with a big stereo Krell? In my case, i have a Class A Gryphon which does double its output consistently to 0.5 ohms.

I think the Krell KRS was used by some to drive them. One of the problems with the Apogees is the fragility of the long ribbon drivers, they can be stretched or worse pretty easily... this can be from high power related to the ridiculously low impedance, also DC offset can be very problematic. if you ultimately go the Apogee route, I'd suggest researching use of good quality resistors/capacitor to limit power draw and protect the fragile tweeter.
 

RBFC

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
5,158
46
1,225
Albuquerque, NM
www.fightingconcepts.com
Intriguing! REgarding the impossible-to-drive Full Ranges, do you know by any chance if one can drive them with a big stereo Krell? In my case, i have a Class A Gryphon which does double its output consistently to 0.5 ohms.

I was driving the full-range with 4 Krell KMA160 monoblocks in biamp configuration. The bass panels had their own amps, and the midrange/tweeter transition was handled by the included crossover. Still miss those....

Lee
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,411
2,509
1,448
Intriguing! REgarding the impossible-to-drive Full Ranges, do you know by any chance if one can drive them with a big stereo Krell? In my case, i have a Class A Gryphon which does double its output consistently to 0.5 ohms.

I was driving the full-range with 4 Krell KMA160 monoblocks in biamp configuration. The bass panels had their own amps, and the midrange/tweeter transition was handled by the included crossover. Still miss those....

Lee

oh...my...word...

...i guess the answer to my question would be 'no'.
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,411
2,509
1,448
I think the Krell KRS was used by some to drive them. One of the problems with the Apogees is the fragility of the long ribbon drivers, they can be stretched or worse pretty easily... this can be from high power related to the ridiculously low impedance, also DC offset can be very problematic. if you ultimately go the Apogee route, I'd suggest researching use of good quality resistors/capacitor to limit power draw and protect the fragile tweeter.

Thank you. In spite of the number of people who seem to remember big Apogees wistfully...i also promised myself never to go for great components (no matter how remarkable) that also broke easily, or were temperamental.
 

RBFC

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
5,158
46
1,225
Albuquerque, NM
www.fightingconcepts.com
The suspension components of the ribbons (Kapton, IIRC) were suspect and "old-generation" materials. Jason Bloom (RIP) told me that they hoped for better suspension material for the ribbons, especially the woofer panels, but Leo Spiegel worked with what was available. I understand that the folks making the "new" versions of the Apogees (Analysis?) are using newer, far superior materials. I'd certainly be interested in hearing a pair of the 4-panel Analysis models!

Lee
 

ekovalsky

New Member
Aug 19, 2015
8
0
0
Scottsdale, AZ
The suspension components of the ribbons (Kapton, IIRC) were suspect and "old-generation" materials. Jason Bloom (RIP) told me that they hoped for better suspension material for the ribbons, especially the woofer panels, but Leo Spiegel worked with what was available. I understand that the folks making the "new" versions of the Apogees (Analysis?) are using newer, far superior materials. I'd certainly be interested in hearing a pair of the 4-panel Analysis models!

Lee

That is exactly correct, Lee

To my knowledge there are two sources of Apogee-type speakers at this time:

http://Analysisaudiousa.com
This is a Greek import. They are mostly 2-way models varying in size. The top of the line Orion is a two piece per side system, with a separate planar 'subwoofer' which is quite strange to me. I've never heard them, but would like to.

http://www.apogeeacoustics.com
Purportedly this is Apogee, now re-commissioned in Australia by Greame "Graz" Keet. I believe he did obtain some of the intellectual property, jigs, etc used by Apogee USA after the passing of Jason Bloom (RIP) many years ago. If these are indeed based on the original designs but with upgraded materials and higher quality contruction, they must be phenomenal. They are also much, much more efficient than the old Apogees and the Analysis Audio planars, with loads that are friendly even for tube amps. There are two dealers listed in the USA, one in the Lake Tahoe, NV area and the other in Springfield, VA. I'd really like to check these out, particularly the top of the line Definitive which is supplied with DEQX crossover.

Here is the NV dealer's site... just found it. I might need to take a trip up to Lake Tahoe :) Photo in the middle, I believe, is the Definitive...

http://www.truesoundworksaudio.com
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
14,411
2,509
1,448
That is exactly correct, Lee

To my knowledge there are two sources of Apogee-type speakers at this time:

http://Analysisaudiousa.com
This is a Greek import. They are mostly 2-way models varying in size. The top of the line Orion is a two piece per side system, with a separate planar 'subwoofer' which is quite strange to me. I've never heard them, but would like to.

http://www.apogeeacoustics.com
Purportedly this is Apogee, now re-commissioned in Australia by Greame "Graz" Keet. I believe he did obtain some of the intellectual property, jigs, etc used by Apogee USA after the passing of Jason Bloom (RIP) many years ago. If these are indeed based on the original designs but with upgraded materials and higher quality contruction, they must be phenomenal. They are also much, much more efficient than the old Apogees and the Analysis Audio planars, with loads that are friendly even for tube amps. There are two dealers listed in the USA, one in the Lake Tahoe, NV area and the other in Springfield, VA. I'd really like to check these out, particularly the top of the line Definitive which is supplied with DEQX crossover.

Here is the NV dealer's site... just found it. I might need to take a trip up to Lake Tahoe :) Photo in the middle, I believe, is the Definitive...

http://www.truesoundworksaudio.com

Agree the Definitive looks intriguing...enjoyed reading the description...but 6 channels of amplification required?? As much as i have admittedly already crossed the line into 'OCD' territory in our current system...6 channels of amplification is yet another level of space, size, cost, etc... Whew!
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing