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Thread: AQ Jitterbug Measurements

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    Member Sponsor Addicted to Best! dallasjustice's Avatar
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    Lightbulb AQ Jitterbug Measurements

    JA published analog jitter measurements using the AQ jitterbug. I don't think the article is online yet since I just got the magazine in the mail yesterday.

    JA's measutements showed no significant difference with the j Dunn jitter test. The ONLY repeatable differences were shown at inaudible levels whilst measuring the crappy AQ dragonfly. Two other more expensive DACs showed no difference.

    Of course, many will say that JA's measurents don't matter because:
    1. He didn't have specialized gear made by Tektronix designed to measure USB packet noise.
    Or
    2. Measurements don't matter because "I heard it."

    Those who advocate the first objection may have a point. But I don't think it's very strong since listeners don't listen in digital. IMO, the burden is on the proponent claiming that a jitterbug can improve sound if that's what they are claiming. I've read all kinds of subjective opinions on various fora about the jitterbug, Schiit wyrd and the Uptone Regen. The claims being made are getting comical. I read one guy say that his bass had improved so much that he had to turn his sub down by 4db after interposing a USB regenerator. If that were true, it would be easy to measure these difference in the analog domain. Turns out, measurements once again prove elusive.

    Is this a case of mass hysteria? Is everyone claiming to hear huge differences suffering from placebo effect? What do you think?

    Michael.
    Last edited by dallasjustice; 08-16-2015 at 11:22 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dallasjustice View Post
    JA published analog jitter measurements using the AQ jitterbug. I don't think the article is online yet since I just got the magazine in the mail yesterday.

    JA's measutements showed no significant difference with the j Dunn jitter test. The ONLY repeatable differences were shown at inaudible levels whilst measuring the crappy AQ dragonfly. Two other more expensive DACs showed no difference.

    Of course, many will say that JA's measurents don't matter because:
    1. He didn't have specialized gear made by Tektronix designed to measure USB packet noise.
    Or
    2. Measurements don't matter because "I heard it."

    Those who advocate the first objection may have a point. But I don't think it's very strong since listeners don't listen in digital. IMO, the burden is on the proponent claiming that a jitterbug can improve sound if that's what they are claiming. I've read all kinds of subjective opinions on various fora about the jitterbug, Schiit wyrd and the Uptone Regen. The claims being made are getting comical. I read one guy say that his bass had improved so much that he had to turn his sub down by 4db after interposing a USB regenerator. If that were true, it would be easy to measure these difference in the analog domain. Turns out, measurements once again prove elusive.

    Is this a case of mass hysteria? Is everyone claiming to hear huge differences suffering from placebo effect? What do you think?

    Michael.
    Very timely and interesting post.

    First, the Audiquest Jitterbug. You are correct, the John Atkinson's measurements, and let's repeat, that, HIS specific measurements showed not much benefit.

    However, SUBJECTIVELY, he CLEARLY heard a positive difference.

    I have the UpTone REGEN, and the Schit Wyrd. btw, and and I have a Jittrbug on the way.

    I can tell you for sure the REGEN and the Wyrd improve the sound.

    But..let's get to the next part.

    Yes, absolutely, some of hysterical claims on various forums have been over the top for sure. Totally agree.
    I personally think there is a lot of shilling going on. So I am with you on the fact that these devices are being
    sold based on numerous subjective opinions.

    However, before you write all these products, off, please give them a listen. I think operating under the premise
    that everything can be measured is 20th century stuff.

    BTW, Jesus from Sonore is sending me the SOtM USB HUB, which competes with the REGEN, and their LAN filter/isolator.
    Andre Marc
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    Member Sponsor Addicted to Best! dallasjustice's Avatar
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    It sounds like you believe a few of the more hysterical claims made about the USB hubs mentioned herein were made by folks suffering from simple placebo effect. How do you know with any certainty that your opinions aren't placebo enhanced just the same? Or are you saying these outlandish claims are made by flat out liars and fraudsters who are trying to help the manufacturers sell a few more boxes?
    Quote Originally Posted by Andre Marc View Post
    Very timely and interesting post.

    First, the Audiquest Jitterbug. You are correct, the John Atkinson's measurements, and let's repeat, that, HIS specific measurements showed not much benefit.

    However, SUBJECTIVELY, he CLEARLY heard a positive difference.

    I have the UpTone REGEN, and the Schit Wyrd. btw, and and I have a Jittrbug on the way.

    I can tell you for sure the REGEN and the Wyrd improve the sound.

    But..let's get to the next part.

    Yes, absolutely, some of hysterical claims on various forums have been over the top for sure. Totally agree.
    I personally think there is a lot of shilling going on. So I am with you on the fact that these devices are being
    sold based on numerous subjective opinions.

    However, before you write all these products, off, please give them a listen. I think operating under the premise
    that everything can be measured is 20th century stuff.

    BTW, Jesus from Sonore is sending me the SOtM USB HUB, which competes with the REGEN, and their LAN filter/isolator.
    MUSIC IS GOOD

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    This is an interesting thread to start. I too have the Schiit Wyrd and have had it for over 6 months. You will note that Schiit does not claim that it makes your system sound better. Personally, I think it improves the sound of my system a tad, but wouldn't bet $10 on it. However, it does do what it is advertised to do and why I bought it in the first place, namely to bypass my Mac Book Air's power system to eliminate drop outs. I may get one drop out of every 20 hours of listening and for that, I am very happy. As for the Jitterbug, I read JA's article. I have one on order as I have one spare USB slot on my computer. My SSD is hooked up via Thunderbolt and the other USB to the Wyrd and then the DAC. I frankly doubt that I will hear a difference with the Jitterbug connected to the open USB but for the money, I figured I would give it a try. It I hear an improvement, not just a difference but and improvement, great. If not, I am sure a local audiophile will take it off my hands. It is due to arrive here on Tuesday. I will pop it in and see if I hear an improvement with files I am very familiar with. That shouldn't take very long.

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    Member Sponsor Addicted to Best! dallasjustice's Avatar
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    Thanks for the thoughtful response.

    I DID think it was interesting to see JA's DAC noise floor graph where he compared his Mac Book Pro powered off battery versus plugged in. The MBP USB is much less noisy when plugged in. There was a pretty large difference and it was MUCH bigger than the barely measureable jitterbug effect on a garbage DAC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Whip View Post
    This is an interesting thread to start. I too have the Schiit Wyrd and have had it for over 6 months. You will note that Schiit does not claim that it makes your system sound better. Personally, I think it improves the sound of my system a tad, but wouldn't bet $10 on it. However, it does do what it is advertised to do and why I bought it in the first place, namely to bypass my Mac Book Air's power system to eliminate drop outs. I may get one drop out of every 20 hours of listening and for that, I am very happy. As for the Jitterbug, I read JA's article. I have one on order as I have one spare USB slot on my computer. My SSD is hooked up via Thunderbolt and the other USB to the Wyrd and then the DAC. I frankly doubt that I will hear a difference with the Jitterbug connected to the open USB but for the money, I figured I would give it a try. It I hear an improvement, not just a difference but and improvement, great. If not, I am sure a local audiophile will take it off my hands. It is due to arrive here on Tuesday. I will pop it in and see if I hear an improvement with files I am very familiar with. That shouldn't take very long.
    MUSIC IS GOOD

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    Quote Originally Posted by dallasjustice View Post
    It sounds like you believe a few of the more hysterical claims made about the USB hubs mentioned herein were made by folks suffering from simple placebo effect. How do you know with any certainty that your opinions aren't placebo enhanced just the same? Or are you saying these outlandish claims are made by flat out liars and fraudsters who are trying to help the manufacturers sell a few more boxes?
    I'm not sure I understand your attitude. I specifically made a point to agree with our opinion that many of the claims about these products are suspect. I then said I heard an improvement with two of these products. How on earth does that correlate with me believing the "more hysterical" claims? You seem to have an unrelenting agenda to disprove that anything that can't be measured can't work. If you had put aside that agenda, you would not ask me if I was a victim of the placebo affect, you would have asked me specifically what I heard.

    I am a skeptic's skeptic, and I can easily say I am no sucker. I ask you, do you have any interest or intent to try these products? If not, you are just wasting bandwidth.
    Andre Marc
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Whip View Post
    This is an interesting thread to start. I too have the Schiit Wyrd and have had it for over 6 months. You will note that Schiit does not claim that it makes your system sound better. Personally, I think it improves the sound of my system a tad, but wouldn't bet $10 on it. However, it does do what it is advertised to do and why I bought it in the first place, namely to bypass my Mac Book Air's power system to eliminate drop outs. I may get one drop out of every 20 hours of listening and for that, I am very happy. As for the Jitterbug, I read JA's article. I have one on order as I have one spare USB slot on my computer. My SSD is hooked up via Thunderbolt and the other USB to the Wyrd and then the DAC. I frankly doubt that I will hear a difference with the Jitterbug connected to the open USB but for the money, I figured I would give it a try. It I hear an improvement, not just a difference but and improvement, great. If not, I am sure a local audiophile will take it off my hands. It is due to arrive here on Tuesday. I will pop it in and see if I hear an improvement with files I am very familiar with. That shouldn't take very long.
    Concerning the Jitterbug, why do you doubt you will hear a difference? As I noted above, I come from the disbelieve all claims school, so understand the mind set, but the fact that Gordon Rankin helped design the product makes me doubt it is snake oil. He does not deal in snake oil.
    Andre Marc
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    First, in response to Dallas, I use my Mac Book Air plugged in. Seems to work better. As for Andre's comment, I am not sure that after stripping out the power from the USB cable that the Wyrd already does, that the Jitterbug will do anything. I am NOT claiming that it is snake oil. Do you see that anywhere in my post? Trust me, I will give it a VERY careful listen and report my findings, good, bad or indifferent. I have been an audiophile since the 80's. I have seen a ton and tend to be skeptical. if the thing arrives on Tuesday, I will listen that night and report back Wednesday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe Whip View Post
    First, in response to Dallas, I use my Mac Book Air plugged in. Seems to work better. As for Andre's comment, I am not sure that after stripping out the power from the USB cable that the Wyrd already does, that the Jitterbug will do anything. I am NOT claiming that it is snake oil. Do you see that anywhere in my post? Trust me, I will give it a VERY careful listen and report my findings, good, bad or indifferent. I have been an audiophile since the 80's. I have seen a ton and tend to be skeptical. if the thing arrives on Tuesday, I will listen that night and report back Wednesday.
    Hey Joe:

    Actually I was not implying you called the Jitterbug snake oil, that was more of a general statement, not aimed at you.

    As mentioned, I too have gotten a good laugh at some of the (expensive) tweaks that have come and gone over the years.

    My original intention was to just establish you would listen with an open mind. BTW, I am not the biggest fan of Audioquest..far to much
    product churn, too many lines, and their Ethernet cables are a rip in my opinion. However, I try to judge every new product on its own merit.

    The UpTone REGEN is probably one of the most hyped products in recent memory, but I have to say it really does work...on both a $499 iFi DAC and a $6000 Simaudio DAC.
    Andre Marc
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    Member Sponsor Addicted to Best! dallasjustice's Avatar
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    You didn't answer my question and I'll happily answer yours. I ordered a Regen today. When I get it, I'll measure it with RMAA and my Lynx Hilo. I'll also listen to it. I prolly won't make any definitive claims about it though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Andre Marc View Post
    I'm not sure I understand your attitude. I specifically made a point to agree with our opinion that many of the claims about these products are suspect. I then said I heard an improvement with two of these products. How on earth does that correlate with me believing the "more hysterical" claims? You seem to have an unrelenting agenda to disprove that anything that can't be measured can't work. If you had put aside that agenda, you would not ask me if I was a victim of the placebo affect, you would have asked me specifically what I heard.

    I am a skeptic's skeptic, and I can easily say I am no sucker. I ask you, do you have any interest or intent to try these products? If not, you are just wasting bandwidth.
    MUSIC IS GOOD

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