Best Projector Under $3000

muralman1

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Jul 7, 2010
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I looked over the threads talking about ultra expensive projectors. They all have me scratching my head. One over $10k beautiful hunk of plastic offered no lateral adjustment. Holy mackerel!

I went to an FX showroom opening in a building made famous here by Keith Yates. There was a blacked out room. A small crowd was in there watching video picture on the wall. There was a $10k projector, the brand escaping me now, perhaps a Runco. I looked at the picture in that dark room, and could not see any improvement over my Samsung PLV Z3000. In fact, I like mine better.

What I don't understand is why someone would pay more than $3k for a product that is going to fail in 2 to perhaps 6 years depending on it's usage. I have also allowed, swallowing my pride, a DLP TV to be placed on my stereo equipment cabinet between my Apogees. This is an abomination to me. I turn it sideways when listening to music. The fact is, having that blasted TV there will greatly extend the life of our projector.

The Sanyo Z3000 is a very good projector. It is a darn sight better than our 42" Samsung DLP tv. Detail for the projector is wonderful. The contrast is good enough, color rendition bright, correct, and strong. The action is very good. Watching the US Open Tennis matches, I can watch the ball being pounded across the net with no streaking. The box TV can't do that. Slammed tennis balls look like Haley's comet. When, watching true HD, I can see the skin texture on a close up face, what can be finer?

So, with the steeply diminishing picture values in costly projection, and their ultimate failure, I say keep the money spent on projection to one of the very fine sub $3k projectors on the market.

Has anyone compared sub $3k projectors with each other?

Vince
 
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amirm

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Apr 2, 2010
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Addressing your general commentary, someone could say that about all of your audio gear! Surely a non-audiophile would laugh out loud as someone buying tube amps, etc on the basis of reliability as you state for projectors. :)

Anyway, Epson rules the sub-$3K category. It is LCD technology that has come a long way from its early days of having no contrast and bad pixel structure.

Stepping up, what you get is:

a) more brightness for larger screens.
b) more contrast
c) more accurate colors

Of course, price/performance drops like a rock as it does when you go from an AVR for $300 and $25 CD player to stuff we talk about here :D.
 

muralman1

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Jul 7, 2010
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Audio equipment can be kept and used a lot longer than a projector. At least that has been my experience. The Z-3000 is our fourth in 8 years. We had three teens in the house through the first three.
Note: my projector is the Sanyo PLV Z-3000. I imagine you saw that typo.

Our screen is an 80" diagonal. That is very large from 14' away. Closeups give me a giant head as is. I think this close seating situation is more the norm for American households, though I may be wrong. Houses built with the open floor plan might require a bigger screen. However, the expansive family/kitchen space in recent built houses virtually all come with a wide notch in the wall next to the gas fireplace. We all know what that is for. I never can find a usable wall in a new 4000 sq. ft. house that will accommodate my stereo.

Yes, I know about tubes. A neighbor of mine watched an un-obtainable $800 giant tube blow while we were listening to the music...... Ouch.

Could you please give me the Epson model you are referring to? Has DLP technology finally lost the rainbow effect?
 

amirm

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Apr 2, 2010
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Audio equipment can be kept and used a lot longer than a projector. At least that has been my experience.
Would you like to buy a barely used Lexicon 12B processor, which retailed for $12K and got obsoleted in two years because it didn't have HDMI switching? I have one sitting there. And its little brother, the $5K unit I bought in 1997 which got obsoleted since it only switched S-video and composite. :)

The Z-3000 is our fourth in 8 years. We had three teens in the house through the first three.
Note: my projector is the Sanyo PLV Z-3000. I imagine you saw that typo.
Yes I did :).

Our screen is an 80" diagonal. That is very large from 14' away.
That gives you about 26 degrees field of view. Based on SMPTE specs, you are sitting 2 feet too far (or your screen is too small). You are right at THX recommendation though. Having too narrow of a field of view means your eye more easily wonders outside of the edges of the screen, taking you away from the illusion of being there.

Could you please give me the Epson model you are referring to? Has DLP technology finally lost the rainbow effect?
Let me check with my folks to get back to you on the Epson. They had some new units at CEDIA and I didn't keep track of their model numbers.

As for DLP, yes although they come at high cost:

1. 3-chip units. These start at $30K and go up from there.

2. LED, single chip. These replace the color wheel with tri-color LEDs which flash faster. As a result, it is much harder, but not impossible, to see the rainbows. Unfortunately the technology is new and expensive. Lowest cost units are around $15K and higher end ones around $25K. They do start instantly though and the bulb lasts forever. If these benefits are not important, then they are not yet a good option yet.
 

muralman1

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Jul 7, 2010
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I had to chuckle over the speedy obsolescence of your projectors. I imagine you had the same problem with your video cameras too. I know I did. Now there are wafer cameras that I bet can do a better job than my all bells video camera just 6 years ago.

My amp and preamp has lived through all our projector's lives, but that is only because the power duo just keep on giving the more I change my system. I suppose most folks don't keep their amps all that long. I know I went through three in four years before the H2O.

I have not seen anything in DLP in stores that makes me want to go that way. I just feel The LED projector gives a more natural look. That is just my preference. Funny, the reviewer of the Z3000 said it needed a lot of bench adjustment. Mine looked perfect right out of the box. I am easier to please when it comes to video.

What are you using now?

Vince
 

amirm

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Apr 2, 2010
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My projectors are getting bit old. Plan to upgrade them once I finish the research into the best that is available now. Here is what I have:

1. Samsung (Joe Kane) DLP A800
2. JVC RS-1 (DILA)
3. Sony VPL-VW100 (DILA)

PS what I listed were dedicated surround processors in the post above, NOT projectors.
 

amirm

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OK, the favorite Epson projector is Powerlight 6500UB. It is sold by dealers though. If you have trouble finding someone near you who sells it, PM me.
 

Mark (Basspig) Weiss

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One should not overlook the open box or lightly used market.. I scored an InFocus IN82 last year with a street price of $5500, for only $1450 or so, and it had only 82 hours on the original bulb. I now have over 500 hours on it and it works great and is often too bright for my 12' screen size. Contrast is beautiful, but more importantly, shadow detail is very good--an area where many PJs are grossly deficient. I have the Spears & Munsel Blu-ray test disc from my Oppo BDP-83 purchase and it even bests some of the examples of what you should expect. The footage I shoot looks so lifelike it's almost as if the screen were a hole in the wall to the actual scene. It was good when I got it, but once I calibrated it, it got even better. I bought a spare UHP bulb for it, but 2500 hours is several years down the road at the rate of use. I built my whole theater (using existing sound system) for $2500. The rest of the money went to screen materials, velvet fabric, wood, screws, brackets and chairs. I have the IN82 set up for HDMI from a HDMI switcher, from which my two Oppo players are connected, and the DVI input is connected to a DVI switcher, two which both my editing workstations are connected. So with a button press on the remote, I can view video off the computers or the BD players. There's nothing automatic on the IN82--all of the cost went into the optics and picture producing engine. But oh what a picture for something that streets at $5500!
 

rsbeck

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Apr 20, 2010
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A small crowd was in there watching video picture on the wall.

Wall? No screen?

There was a $10k projector, the brand escaping me now, perhaps a Runco.

For $10,000 probably not a Runco.

I looked at the picture in that dark room, and could not see any improvement over my Samsung PLV Z3000.

From what distance? What other conditions?

What I don't understand is why someone would pay more than $3k for a product that is going to fail in 2 to perhaps 6 years depending on it's usage.

Where did you get that stat?

So, with the steeply diminishing picture values in costly projection, and their ultimate failure, I say keep the money spent on projection to one of the very fine sub $3k projectors on the market.

That might be okay if you're lighting a smaller screen.

IMO, the most immersive experience comes from sitting 1.3 to 1.5 times Screen Width.

I sit 13 feet back from a screen that is 9.5' wide and this is within recommended SMPTE and THX spec.

Like most things, this all depends on your application and how much extra light, extra size, more accurate colors, etc mean to you. If you're willing to watch a smaller screen or watch a dimmer picture, you can certainly save on your projector.

These days, you can get quite a bit of quality in the $3,000 price range.

Just like audio, increases in quality come at exponential price increases and only the buyer can judge whether these increases are worth the money.

For me, they were.
 

muralman1

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Jul 7, 2010
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I was describing an opening of a new audio store. The wall was specially treated I am sure of that. My screen is a 10' diagonal. I sit about twelve feet away. I love the sweeping views of westerns. I love my $2400 Sanyo. The picture has very good contrast, detail, and saturated colors.
 

rsbeck

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muralman1

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Jul 7, 2010
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Which one?
Demo room with a specially treated wall instead of a screen?
You wrote that your screen is 80" diagonal and you sit 14' feet away.

If an audio store built a separate room for the expressed purpose to sell projectors, yes, I can assume the viewing wall had been specifically painted for that purpose.

On the distance between the facing couch to the screen, I did not take into account my wife had moved that couch forward, to accommodate a new Persian rug behind the couch, and to make it easier for me. That shortened the viewing distance too.
 

rsbeck

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Apr 20, 2010
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If an audio store built a separate room for the expressed purpose to sell projectors, yes, I can assume the viewing wall had been specifically painted for that purpose.

Sounds awfully odd to me. What's the name of the store?

On the distance between the facing couch to the screen, I did not take into account my wife had moved that couch forward, to accommodate a new Persian rug behind the couch, and to make it easier for me. That shortened the viewing distance too.

That might explain how you got closer to the screen, but you didn't explain how your screen grew from 80" diagonal to 120" diagonal in just a few shorts posts.
 

FrantzM

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<snip>

That might explain how you got closer to the screen, but you didn't explain how your screen grew from 80" diagonal to 120" diagonal in just a few shorts posts.

:)
 

muralman1

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Jul 7, 2010
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Sacramento Ca
Sounds awfully odd to me. What's the name of the store?

That might explain how you got closer to the screen, but you didn't explain how your screen grew from 80" diagonal to 120" diagonal in just a few shorts posts.

You misread me somewhere. I never said my screen is a 120. It is a Da-lite pull up screen. I use that so I can lower it when I just want to listen to music.

The event was an opening for a local Audio FX store. There are lots of folks that treat the wall for projection.
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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I was describing an opening of a new audio store. The wall was specially treated I am sure of that. My screen is a 10' diagonal. I sit about twelve feet away. I love the sweeping views of westerns. I love my $2400 Sanyo. The picture has very good contrast, detail, and saturated colors.

You misread me somewhere. I never said my screen is a 120. It is a Da-lite pull up screen. I use that so I can lower it when I just want to listen to music.

The event was an opening for a local Audio FX store. There are lots of folks that treat the wall for projection.

Emphasis is mine
 

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